Episode 42
42: Wired for Healing: Cindy Smith on Brainspotting, Burnout, and Bilateral Breakthroughs
What if the key to unlocking deep emotional healing isn’t in talking, but in where you look?
In this episode, we sit down with Cindy Smith, a pioneering brainspotting practitioner based in Boulder, Colorado, who’s been helping people regulate their nervous systems and reconnect with themselves since 2008. Cindy’s journey is anything but linear—and that’s exactly what makes it powerful.
From being the go-to confidante as a kid to studying psychology from day one in college (never changing her major!), Cindy has always had an innate sense for emotional depth. But burnout from agency work with youth led them into the world of systems engineering—until they found their way back to the healing arts through the profound modality of brainspotting.
Not only does Cindy bring a wealth of clinical and life experience to the table, but they're also the creator of Bodi Tree Bilateral Music, a groundbreaking soundscape designed to soothe the amygdala and support deep nervous system regulation.
Cindy also shares what it was like navigating the world as a non-binary person before the language even existed—and how that shaped their lens as a healer who sees the whole person.
🎙️ In this episode, we explore:
- How brainspotting fills the gaps traditional therapy can’t always reach
- Why bilateral music helps calm the brain—and how it works
- Cindy’s leap from mental health to tech and back again
- The emotional cost of burnout and how to recover from it
- What it means to be a pioneer—in identity, in healing, and in sound
Whether you're a clinician, a seeker, or someone curious about the intersection of psychology, identity, and neuroscience, Cindy’s story will leave you inspired and maybe even transformed.
Cindy “CJ” Smith (any) LCSW, ACC is a psychotherapist and executive coach in private
practice in Boulder, Colorado. Cindy specializes in working with LGBTIA2S+ clients and their
families as well as those dealing with anxiety, depression, trauma, traumatic brain injury and
performance issues (sports, business and performing arts). Cindy also works with leaders and
organizations on leadership, culture, strategy and enhancing performance.
Cindy began her Brainspotting training in 2008 and has been a certified Brainspotting consultant
for more than a decade. She also co-owns the bilateral music company BodhiTree Bilateral.
Cindy is queer and non-binary and developed the specialty workshop Brainspotting with
LGBTQIA2S+ clients together with Dr. Pie Frey (she). Cindy enjoys skiing, hiking, biking,
pickleball and writing music when not working.
Transcript
00;00;07;25 - 00;00;39;08
Narrator
Hello and welcome to Cherie Lindberg's Elevated Life Academy. Stories of hope and healing. Through raw and heartfelt conversations, we uncover the powerful tools and strategies these individuals use to not only heal themselves, but also inspire those around them. Join us on this incredible journey as we discover the human spirit's remarkable capacity to heal, find hope in the darkest of moments, and ultimately live an elevated life.
00;00;39;10 - 00;01;10;04
Cherie Lindberg
Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Elevated Life Academy, and I am your host, Cherie Lindberg. And I am being joined today by Cindy Smith, who is also a brain spotter. And she also maybe you some of you know, if your brain spotter is listening, she has Body Tree Bilateral. So we'll have her talk a little bit about the music she's created for our clients to be able to listen, that helps their amygdala relax.
00;01;10;06 - 00;01;16;07
Cherie Lindberg
So I'm going to let Cindy introduce herself. Thank you so much for being here Cindy.
00;01;16;10 - 00;01;38;03
Cindy Smith
do. Been brain spotting since:00;01;38;03 - 00;02;03;24
Cindy Smith
ee bilateral came about in in:00;02;03;24 - 00;02;24;12
Cindy Smith
I've got a co-owner with that who's I have to say full disclosure. He is the musical genius behind the music I am I am a musician, but not of that caliber. So that's that's dynamic bass music. You're hearing that. Listen to that. And yeah, we've got some new things that have just come out that we could talk about as well that are really kind of different for us.
00;02;24;12 - 00;02;29;21
Cindy Smith
We've gotten a lot of feedback over the years, so we try to incorporate some things, folks that folks were asking for. It.
00;02;29;24 - 00;02;37;15
Cherie Lindberg
So. So tell us a little bit about your journey to becoming a healer and how it's evolved and where it's taken you.
00;02;37;17 - 00;02;58;07
Cindy Smith
You know, I was one of those folks that went into college with a major never changed that. I kind of always knew that I wanted to do psychology and where that comes from. I don't, you know, I maybe I was somebody who I was an older child who was somebody who was always listened. People kind of came to talk to me.
00;02;58;07 - 00;03;22;11
Cindy Smith
I was also somebody who was nonbinary in an age that where those concepts and language weren't really available at all. So I, I knew I was very different than my peers. I didn't really understand what that was about until well into my adulthood. So I think that possibly made me much more curious about humans and kind of what we're about.
00;03;22;11 - 00;03;54;28
Cindy Smith
And how we come to be. So I started out in psych and went into social work because for me, it was, you know, I like the looking at the whole person is really the focus of, of more of a social work degree and contextually taking in the environment and, and everything else around that person. So I worked in mental health, in agencies, in mostly, like settings for about the first 15 years and with children, adolescents and their families, which was wonderful, and I loved that.
00;03;54;28 - 00;04;19;18
Cindy Smith
And then really kind of hit a wall, as many of us do at some point, and was quite burned out in my in the mid 30s. And so I stopped and went into computing, so became a systems engineer and a trainer for Microsoft for a few years, and then was contacted by some other colleagues to to interview for a job in local government that was working with Human services.
00;04;19;18 - 00;04;45;28
Cindy Smith
So I did that and opened a private practice at about the same time and shortly thereafter, part of it, I think part of the reason I've burned out is because my background was talk therapy. And, you know, I was educated in the day where we were still looking at Freud and, you know, all these kinds of things and, and when I left the field at that time, I remember saying to a colleague, I just feel like we're missing something, you know, there's something we don't know about yet.
00;04;45;28 - 00;05;07;19
Cindy Smith
And I'm tired of talking to somebody around the same problem for years at a time and not having things move. And so. So I was working in, in local government and ran into an old friend from, from college, Melanie Young, who many of you may know is a brain spotter. And I had just seen an ad in the paper and we ran it, you know, ran into each other at Whole Foods and were talking.
00;05;07;19 - 00;05;27;28
Cindy Smith
And I don't know how it came around the brain spotting, but she had mentioned she had just taken the training and it was exciting. And I said, hey, I just saw it in the paper and it did seem really intriguing. And she said, you know, couldn't, couldn't encourage more to do it. And so I went and signed up that afternoon and came home and said, this is what we've been missing.
00;05;28;00 - 00;05;40;06
Cindy Smith
This really feels like the piece of technology that's going to move things forward in the way that we need it to go. So that's kind of how I started and where I've kept going.
00;05;40;08 - 00;05;49;19
Cherie Lindberg
Yeah. And how did where did you come up with the idea or how did it evolve into, you know what, I'm going to do some bilateral music? Well, you know.
00;05;49;19 - 00;06;19;23
Cindy Smith
As I mentioned, women and amateur musician, and I was recording an album and was talking with the person that was producing it at 2:00 on England. You're mixing something. And he had his own journey with bilaterally, done some eMDR and whatnot. And so we were talking about music and I'd been listening to to clients and, and hearing and I hear this from other brain spotters too, that people really gravitated towards certain things and not towards others or really like the nature aspect.
00;06;19;23 - 00;06;46;05
Cindy Smith
And so he and I were talking about that and we just thought, well, what would it be like if we put together some things and combined some nature sounds and just see what that would be like for people? The other thing that I was kind of interested in is finding something that that was original music, because most of the bilateral at the time that we were hearing was based on things that you that were out there already or things that were recognizable.
00;06;46;07 - 00;07;01;17
Cindy Smith
And that was one thing that I heard. Klein says, oh, I hate this song or this or whatever it seemed. And I know it's all part of the process, and they get that, too. So we had to include that as part of the process, but it also sound what it felt like sometimes it would take them in a different direction perhaps.
00;07;01;19 - 00;07;21;01
Cindy Smith
Yeah. So curious about what what would happen if people had music that they didn't have anything that they would have related to because they wouldn't have heard it before. So I then I talked to David. He was coming to town again, you know, back in the day when they were many of us in the room and, and I talked to him about what I was thinking.
00;07;21;01 - 00;07;44;04
Cindy Smith
And he was, you know, David's always very generous with his his knowledge and wisdom and shared kind of how he put his together and why and some of the different things to think about and to, to make sure that you plan for when you're when you're developing bilateral music with the brain. And so then and it took that and tried an experiment just to see what would happen and gone from there.
00;07;44;06 - 00;07;46;12
Cindy Smith
I think we've got ten offerings at this point.
00;07;46;12 - 00;08;09;15
Cherie Lindberg
Yeah. Well I have to say you're not asking but I'm going to offer that. Forest bathing is my fave. The chime I love chimes and just the wind and that's one of my favorites. And it's a consistent 45 minutes I love that one. And then the singing bowls is another one. And now it's in competition with the Celtic one.
00;08;09;15 - 00;08;27;06
Cherie Lindberg
I have to say something like that. And I have three that I really, really, that really, really resonate and reflections is I mean they all have their uniqueness, but like those are my three that for some reason like really support movement for me when I'm, when I'm doing my brain spanning work.
00;08;27;08 - 00;08;43;18
Cindy Smith
Yeah. For spinning or the album was actually called solitude, the track as well, stating that was the the first one. We thought, let's just do a whole 40, you know, a whole session length and see how that goes. And I love the fact John was playing it for me, because we were talking about how to program that bilateral.
00;08;43;20 - 00;08;55;09
Cindy Smith
I don't know if you noticed, but there's some geese that fly over at some point, and he was so excited to show it to me where the geese start over here in the stereo field, and they fly over this direction. And then they come in just once on the wind. So that was kind of.
00;08;55;12 - 00;09;01;20
Cherie Lindberg
I actually, I don't think I have ever heard geese on there. I'm now that you say that right. I have to go back on there. And here is.
00;09;01;20 - 00;09;02;21
Cindy Smith
Towards the beginning.
00;09;02;23 - 00;09;17;11
Cherie Lindberg
Yeah. That's really that's really neat. I just the chimes really speak to me. I have a really huge chime that sits out here and it's very, very soothing. Yeah, that's really wonderful. So now what are you primarily doing with Body Tree?
00;09;17;11 - 00;09;41;10
Cindy Smith
I'll speak to that, I guess, because we have some really different things that we've just put out. Folks from time to time will email us with suggestions or thoughts or ideas, and we do listen. And one of them that we actually can get a request for, for well over a decade that we were just kind of working on in stock and whatnot was something young people, when listen to young people being a very broad category.
00;09;41;10 - 00;10;04;04
Cindy Smith
So who knows. But we've come up with something it's called it's a new album called departure because it is very much a departure for us. It's very uptempo. There's no nature on it whatsoever. It's full of drums, electric guitars, electronica, synthesizers. I wasn't sure how I was going to relate to it, listen to it, but it's actually it's good music and I like it.
00;10;04;05 - 00;10;17;14
Cindy Smith
No, it's one of my new favorites, just because I can put it on, you know, when I don't want to get into more of a quiet, meditative or like kind of bowing out to the exercises or something like that, it it's more formal.
00;10;17;14 - 00;10;20;25
Cherie Lindberg
Hopefully our adolescent friends will enjoy that.
00;10;20;27 - 00;10;34;12
Cindy Smith
And then the other thing that we have been getting some feedback on, well, the other thing we did finish is we had one track for young children called walking on the farm that we've just made into a full a CD compilation. So with that one, we've got.
00;10;34;14 - 00;10;34;26
Cherie Lindberg
Some.
00;10;34;26 - 00;10;52;24
Cindy Smith
Fun up tempo bilateral with a lot of like animals, sounds and stuff for the kids. But there are also a couple of there's one that's just nature and a couple of lullabies kind of things for wind down. And then the other two that we just put out, one is, is just piano music. There's no nature on it either.
00;10;52;24 - 00;11;13;24
Cindy Smith
It's just very meditative piano. That's another one that's like a 15 minute. And then the second one is called simple and it's just straight tones. There's one that's just tics, one that's just tones that are bilateral eyes and one that's rain. Those two were in response to folks, and I've seen this as well, clients that get overstimulated or have a hard time.
00;11;14;01 - 00;11;30;23
Cindy Smith
Yeah. With the busyness of bilateral scaling back to just one element or something, it doesn't change as much. That's really kind of that's our response to to that request. And again, would love to get feedback on on how that that lands for people.
00;11;30;23 - 00;11;51;05
Cherie Lindberg
When they're used. Yeah. Well we'll put definitely on the show notes. We'll put all of your social media sites and Bodie Tree and all that. And we're, we're saying, hey Cindy, want some feedback folks? So if you get this music and or are listening, you know, please give her a holler and let her know what's you know, what's the impact of of some of this new music.
00;11;51;05 - 00;12;03;12
Cherie Lindberg
How exciting. That's really that's really great. And so now in terms of your own work with folks, what are you where are you at now?
00;12;03;14 - 00;12;36;22
Cindy Smith
Well, I'm still doing quite a bit of brain spotting. I, you know, developed a few years ago, a specialty workshop I'm working with Lgbtq+ clients, of which I am a member of that community, along with Doctor Frye. And so doing that, I'm doing consulting, but have moved more in the direction of coaching and use brain spotting in my coaching practice, but also use some other different kinds of critical thinking tools and strategic planning kinds of things.
00;12;36;23 - 00;12;56;29
Cindy Smith
A lot of my coaching clients are organizations, not all of them, but some of them are, so we don't do as much brain spotting there. I do it with my individual clients a lot. There's a lot that can be done around performance and enhance expansion. Brain spotting and that kind of thing is you probably aware, you know, you've moved in that direction of yourself.
00;12;57;01 - 00;13;17;24
Cherie Lindberg
Yeah, it's a it's a lot of fun watching people go for it and go for their desires and their dreams. Is there any stories throughout? I mean, you've been in the field a while, Cindy, and so I would imagine there's many, but is there any stories that come to mind when you think about your career and all the different directions that's taken, where they're stories of hope and healing here?
00;13;17;26 - 00;13;38;18
Cindy Smith
Oh, so many in terms of the brain spotting how accessible it is. And I'll speak generally, and then maybe give some examples, but just how accessible it is for folks in order to move past things that have been very, very long standing in a relatively quick manner to allow them to be freed up and unstuck and and use that energy in different directions.
00;13;38;18 - 00;14;03;23
Cindy Smith
I was talking to a consultee this morning about, you know, quite a while ago, having someone come in with a traumatic memory that was 30 years old, for which they still had sights, sounds, smells, all of that, you know, and we worked on it for about 45 minutes and this person said, wow, something's wrong with my brain. I mean, I know this happened, but I can't.
00;14;03;25 - 00;14;27;11
Cindy Smith
I just don't remember it as well. It's really kind of fuzzy. All the details. It's like that happened pretty quickly, you know, that's that's what we're shooting for now. It's become, you know, a part of your story and doesn't take over your story. And I think the other thing for me, sure, is a lot of my clients in addition to my coaching clients, but in terms of the brains body during the pandemic, and it's kind of stay this way has young adults.
00;14;27;16 - 00;14;51;13
Cindy Smith
And so just in young adult women in in particular. But seeing people just be able to to grow into who they feel like they want to be, you know, and some folks that have really had some repeated and very intense trauma be able to overcome that and move forward in a lot of them, moving into becoming healers themselves.
00;14;51;16 - 00;15;14;27
Cindy Smith
So those are those are some of the things that are more somatic for me, I think, is those those types of stories. I think, too, you know, with the expansion work and I do I do performance enhancement as well. Just seeing some of some of that work, people being able to step into realities that they didn't think were accessible or move into conversations they didn't think were accessible.
00;15;14;27 - 00;15;41;23
Cindy Smith
David, at a phase for one time was talking about performance work. And he said, you know, it's not just around athletics or artists. You know, it's not around in actual performance all the time. It's anything somebody is worried they're going to fail out where they've got to behave in a certain way. And also and a light bulb went on and I went, wow, that's that's the whole coming out process, which, you know, people in the LGBTQi plus community do on a daily basis.
00;15;41;23 - 00;16;12;15
Cindy Smith
And so began working in my, in my work with that kind of frame. And we teach that in the class. And just seeing people feel more ready to have these difficult conversations or to to feel like they, you know, have the resilience and the confidence to move, move themselves along with either relationships or where they are, either in their lives in a way that that is nourishing and feels like it's it's validated and fulfilling.
00;16;12;17 - 00;16;25;25
Cherie Lindberg
Yeah. And in the climate that we're that we're in right now, that work is so important that you and I are doing in the training. Do you have an upcoming training any time soon? You're planning one.
00;16;25;28 - 00;16;48;11
Cindy Smith
in:00;16;48;11 - 00;17;03;22
Cindy Smith
So luckily we have a lot of that already included, which was great, but still a little bit more to do. But I would say once we have those set that'll be posted on the brain spotting website as well as mine and Doctor Franz as well.
00;17;03;24 - 00;17;28;22
Cherie Lindberg
Wonderful. So look at how far reaching that is you start. You started out using it just, you know, with your clients, and now it's gone into coaching. It's gone into performance work. You you're working with the Lgtbq. You community and such a community that could benefit, you know, from brain spying, just like you were saying, the coming out process.
00;17;28;24 - 00;17;54;00
Cherie Lindberg
So there's so many creative ways to use it. And then that also led you into creating some bilateral music for the community. And I have to say that I'm always sharing your music, and people really do love that. And I've I've talked with John too, and he's helped me out. And, you know, because I reached out to you about doing some imaginal nurturing of parts with the bilateral behind it.
00;17;54;02 - 00;18;12;03
Cherie Lindberg
And so I'm like, wow, where is this going to go? I don't I don't know. But everyone is like reaching out to me. Like, could I get a copy of that? Could I get a copy of that? And so right now I'm just I'm primarily giving that stuff out for free to, to get the feedback. And so we'll see, you know, where, where that takes us.
00;18;12;03 - 00;18;23;19
Cherie Lindberg
But what a beautiful process. Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you think would be really helpful for our listeners to hear from you? Anything percolating up?
00;18;23;21 - 00;18;53;22
Cindy Smith
Well, actually, what you just said reminded me that because you weren't the only one who reached out to us and wondered about using bilateral in different various things as we do now of a new service called Body Tree Custom. So if you've got things like meditations or things like that, that you want to put some original bilateral music that you would then own behind and do reach out to us because we're trying to make that available in an affordable kind of way for folks.
00;18;53;24 - 00;19;00;14
Cindy Smith
So and I've done one myself, I did a progressive relaxation thing for some of my clients with quite a little behind it.
00;19;00;21 - 00;19;24;05
Cherie Lindberg
Yeah, it really helps. It really helps folks and I yeah, I just I think it's amazing and I really love the fact that it feels like it's the offerings are aligned with your, your values of trying to make it affordable and trying to support the feedback that, that you're getting, you know, from folks, when are you in your best self?
00;19;24;08 - 00;19;34;08
Cherie Lindberg
Cindy, what ingredients does that take for you when you know, like you're in your best self, what are you doing? How does that feel?
00;19;34;10 - 00;20;18;16
Cindy Smith
I think when I'm attuned and generally present which attunement takes and connecting with someone in an authentic way, you know, which is often my brain spotting or coaching sessions, a venue like this, I think the calling I yeah, I think when I'm able to be as present to myself and with with those that I'm around and that takes, I think, me paying attention to it and watching my own limbic system and, you know, you and Cynthia Horsburgh came up with some great tools around limbic in transference to to work with that and making sure that I'm paying attention to doing my own work.
00;20;18;19 - 00;20;32;09
Cindy Smith
I think I think that's for me what's what's really the juice of life right now is connecting with with other people in authentic ways. Sometimes it's with music or, you know, or in sports or whatever, but just being able to be there.
00;20;32;15 - 00;20;52;21
Cherie Lindberg
Well, thank you so much for coming on here today and and sharing your story. And thank you so much for sharing your music as well, and your willingness to take that risk and put that out there, because if you had never done that, who knows, right? So there was an idea and you, you ran with it and you followed through with it and now you've got ten offerings out there.
00;20;52;21 - 00;21;07;04
Cherie Lindberg
So that's, that's that's wonderful. We will make sure that your, your website and your contact information is, is on the show notes. And we just want to say thank you for coming in and sharing your story today. Elevator Life Academy stories of hope and healing.
00;21;07;06 - 00;21;10;10
Cindy Smith
Thank you for the opportunity. It's been it's been a really fun time.
00;21;10;13 - 00;21;37;20
Cherie Lindberg
Thank you. I hope you enjoyed our conversation with Cindy Smith, who is not only a brain spotter, but also the owner of Bodhi Tree Bilateral Oil and also a specialty workshop presenter in Brain Spa. If you found what we talked about helpful, some of the things that she was sharing that were really inspiring and in her journey, please share with another person.
00;21;37;20 - 00;21;57;06
Cherie Lindberg
We are trying to spread the word and helping people get them. Information on how to live an elevated life. We're trying to talk to folks and help them hear these stories of hope and healing, so that you know that you too, can do these things, and you don't have to do it alone. You can do it with support.
00;21;57;09 - 00;22;05;22
Cherie Lindberg
We're all about helping people live elevated lives until we meet again. Thank you so much for listening.
00;22;05;24 - 00;22;24;20
Narrator
Thank you for joining us on another uplifting journey on Cherie Lindberg's Elevated Life Academy. Stories of Hope and healing. If you found resonance or connection with what you've heard today, we encourage you to share this episode and consider becoming a subscriber. Please spread the word so others can live an elevated life.
