19: Nurturing Hope through Creative & Expressive Arts with Noula Diamantopoulos

:: 00:07:18

Narrator

Hello and welcome to Cherie Lindberg's Elevated Life Academy. Stories of hope and healing. Through raw and heartfelt conversations, we uncover the powerful tools and strategies these individuals use to not only heal themselves, but also inspired those around them. Join us on this incredible journey as we discover the human spirit's remarkable capacity to heal, find hope in the darkest of moments, and ultimately live an elevated life.

:: 00:40:05

Cherie Lindberg

Hello everyone! This is Cherie Lindberg with another episode of The Elevated Life Academy and I'm excited to hear from our guest tonight. Noula from Australia. And our topic is going to be I wanted to hear so much more about this because I'm really excited to have our talk today about healing and the expressive arts. And so I'm going to let Noula introduce herself and talk about how this all came to be for her.

:: 01:08:23

Cherie Lindberg

And I'm going to have you take it away. Noula.

:: 01:12:21

Noula Diamantopoulos

Thank you so much to read. So lovely to see you again and to chat with you is always so much fun. You know, spending time with you from across the waters.

:: 01:23:03

Cherie Lindberg

And day in and day.

:: 01:25:02

Noula Diamantopoulos

On day in person, that would be awesome. That would be so awesome. So yeah, my name is Noula Diamantopoulos. I'm from Australia originally. I well and still Greek. Into my alphabet name and live by. I am a clinical psychotherapist. I'm an author. I'm an artist, and exhibiting artist. I work with, you know, complex PTSD and my first career, the.

:: 01:56:10

Noula Diamantopoulos

I don't even know if you know this Cherie. My first career was in the corporate world, and I was an international tax manager in the oil and gas industry.

:: 02:06:04

Cherie Lindberg

I would very interesting. Yeah.

:: 02:09:23

Noula Diamantopoulos

Right. And you think, well, that could be like such and such. It not really everything in life is created. That role was a very creative role. Had to be creative in my thinking, you know, for different purposes and then did what they but what was called back in the day SeaChange to become an artist. And then from that came psychotherapy, which when I look back on it, it's always been there, because even in my role, I was a mentor.

:: 02:39:13

Noula Diamantopoulos

I used to mentor women in business as part of the government initiative. It's always been there that that element, if you like, of me. And when I moved out of corporate to become an artist, which, by the way, was not because I discovered any hidden talent, it was that's a strong desire. There was something that pulled me towards the expressive arts, but with me also came people from my corporate world because I did do coaching, so to speak, not qualified as a coach, but was doing this mentoring.

:: 03:13:20

Noula Diamantopoulos

My corporate colleagues would ask if they could come, and so that progressed. The coaching then became something we always using positive psychology, eastern philosophy, Western philosophy, that kind of approach. And until of course, I was starting to be presented with issues that I didn't understand. And that led me then into becoming a psychotherapist. And and basically where I am today was the culmination of everything that I do being available to in whatever it is I do, whether it's sitting in kind of a client, whether it's running a training, whether it is running a workshop, I bring the all of me now.

:: 03:50:09

Noula Diamantopoulos

Whereas there was a time a few like maybe 15 years ago that I would hide different parts of me. Yeah, it was like because I would feel that, I can't tell you that I'm this because then it will reduce, you know, to dilute the credentials that I have for being a therapist, for example, or whatever, you know, and now it's like, nah, everything comes, everything comes.

:: 04:16:20

Noula Diamantopoulos

So the expressive arts has been around me now for probably 25 years, the creative and expressive arts. And I remember when I was first starting to run workshops because I started off, in fact, I started the Mosaic Association of Australia, New Zealand 20 years ago. So and that's an international organization. And now with over a thousand members, I've let go of presidency ship.

:: 04:41:22

Noula Diamantopoulos

Now, I was president for for 20 years. And that's just to show you the orientation that I have to the expressive arts and also to community. But when I first started running my workshops in mosaics, you know, somebody said to me, are you an art therapist? And I go absolutely not thinking that it was something like, how dare you call me that?

:: 05:05:02

Noula Diamantopoulos

Like that? It's like, no, I am not. I'm an artist.

:: 05:11:05

Noula Diamantopoulos

Anyway, I've got to fall on my sword now because I realized that, which I didn't know at the time, that I've always been an educator because I'm always excited to share whatever it is that I learn with others. I've always been, creative in so many different ways of how what that would means, not just the creative and expressive arts were creative in everything that we do in our lives.

:: 05:32:08

Noula Diamantopoulos

We creative in the way that we get dressed. So it's not so. It's the way we problem solve, the way we have relationships with creatives, in the way that we see things, you know. And we might call that neurodiverse and this day, but it's just our unique sense of of the way that we see things. That's our creative approach to life.

:: 05:54:10

Noula Diamantopoulos

We're creative in the way that we choose the words to speak with. We're creating all the time. It's impossible to not create, you know? And now what I can see, and I think what I'd like to say to at this point as well, is most two years ago that I was invited by the BBC to participate in the observational documentary and the OBS, and it's called space 22, and that can be viewed.

:: 06:18:21

Noula Diamantopoulos

I don't know how the US can do it at the moment, but that could be viewed through our ABC, through what's called iView or space 22. And I think there's maybe some ways that you can quietly hack into that. But and that was a six part, documentary that followed seven people who had mental health diagnosis that were involved in different expressive arts activities.

:: 06:49:18

Noula Diamantopoulos

There was a host on the show, and there's there was also me co-hosting, but, as a co-host, I was a psychotherapist. So it was an Australian first, where you see a therapist doing therapy on TV, which was very daunting because when I realized what I signed up for, it was like, whose idea was this therapist being observed by my colleagues, my penis, you know, and I was expecting these emails.

:: 07:20:07

Noula Diamantopoulos

Like, what makes you think you're a therapist? Stupid? What were you thinking when you do this? You know? Anyway, it was a life changing a time. It really was. And we had Black Dog Institute, that's an Australian research institute that was reviewing how effective the creative and expressive arts were for mental health, wellbeing. And of course, it was a positive result, you know, so this is not the whole observational documentary was not about art therapy.

:: 07:48:19

Noula Diamantopoulos

It was more it was about art as therapy. So it was all about, well, we know that exercise is good for us, for our mental health. Could getting involved with the creative and expressive arts be also helpful for us? And I think because we've had these discussions before, Shireen, and I think that you agree that we know that these ways of expressing ourselves are older than the heal fuels.

:: 08:14:15

Noula Diamantopoulos

They're ancient. This is the way that we healed before we had something called psychotherapy or psychology. We healed through song. We healed through dance, we healed through music. We healed through making, through our hands.

:: 08:31:07

Cherie Lindberg

I think we were much more embodied. Yeah, we are now.

:: 08:37:06

Noula Diamantopoulos

Way, way more embodied. And our indigenous populations, they're still in the know, you know, and it feels a little bit like our Western knowing and our Western way of knowing, which is that kind of research based way has you really sledgehammer to what's in our backyard. Basically and want to get back in touch with all of that.

:: 09:01:05

Noula Diamantopoulos

So I have absolutely through my own experience now as a you know trauma therapist working also with the creative and expressive arts. And I don't necessarily mean that they do it in art with me. Sometimes they do will engage in creativity with me. Sometimes they do. So the way that that looks is, you know, I might have some clients who are talking to me about, you know, a particular issue and you can see how heavy it is on the, you know, in their heart this issue that they're having, it's a soul wound.

:: 09:31:07

Noula Diamantopoulos

It's yes, it's activation, but it's activation of a different kind. I don't know if you've experienced the subtleties of when we see someone in a, in an activate had stayed in what we would call, you know, hyper activated. But when you see someone who's whose soul wound is beginning to appear to us, and there is a mixture, the way that I would describe it is, is a mixture of being hyper and hyper in the Western language.

:: 09:58:01

Noula Diamantopoulos

But, you know, to get that language, you just you can just you can just feel it. It's like, so then I might switch channels with them from, from the verbal narrative channel to, hey, you want to grab that A3 piece of paper that's next to you and and grab some of these crayons. I use very chunky big ones be crayons so that they can't control it.

:: 10:20:15

Noula Diamantopoulos

And I just let them express what whatever wishes to be expressed in the form of shading of colors, shapes, squiggles, dots, marks, doesn't have to make any sense. They want to put in a figure. It can be stick figures. It's not about the art, it's about the expression. And as they journey on this page and explore it and whatever becomes, it starts becoming a little bit softer on them.

:: 10:46:04

Noula Diamantopoulos

And as they look at the image, they want to add things. They want to delete things. The image is now talking to them. The image now talks to them. So it becomes a metaphoric journey. And as we collaborate together on the image, so it's you can see it. It's almost is like the soul. The soul world is now come on to the three dimensional page so we can both share it and I can ask questions.

:: 11:12:00

Noula Diamantopoulos

So I might ask, what's that little thing in the right hand corner over there? And I'll go. They'll look at it now I didn't notice that before. And I'll go yeah same spot away from everything else. What is that. And then all of a sudden it could be something like, you know, that's me. So do you want to add something to that part now.

:: 11:34:05

Noula Diamantopoulos

So the journey continues.

:: 11:36:14

Cherie Lindberg

So you were just saying that the image starts to talk. Yeah. And then you might see something. You might ask questions about the image like this thing up here in the right hand corner seems so far away. And then the person might reply by like, oh, I didn't notice that before. And it gives you a way to start to communicate about it pretty much.

:: 12:03:05

Noula Diamantopoulos

And we do it in the same kind of open, curious questions that we do in, you know, brain spotting. You know, I mean, it doesn't stop you to be a little bit more directive when you've got something like that, you know. But I can also say to you how often I've used that and added a brain spot to it.

:: 12:22:07

Cherie Lindberg

You know, then I was just I was wondering about that. Of course. Yeah. Going as they are expressing it any and so that makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

:: 12:32:19

Noula Diamantopoulos

Yeah. Totally totally. It's really it's really exciting. And I might add here that that's one of the once I get it wrapped up, my specialized training with brain splitting and the expressive arts, that's one of the ways that I'll be showing how you can work with the client in brains floating in the expressive arts. And it's not a, you know, for anybody who's listening, it may be feeling that, you know, well, I'm not creative, I'm not an artist.

:: 13:00:07

Noula Diamantopoulos

I'm like this, that and the other. You don't have to be any of those things to bring in the expressive arts to your clients for as part of their healing journey and the way that I would encourage you to do this, if you're a therapist that's listening is invite your clients to participate in anything that is to do with, I don't know, drawing, painting, sculpting, you know, photography, singing, dancing, learning and musical instrument gardening.

:: 13:29:08

Noula Diamantopoulos

I don't care anything. Right. Encourage them the way that you would encourage them for all those hygiene factors that we look for sleep and eating well and hydration and exercise. Add the expressive arts into that. Whatever you're doing, call it a hobby if you like that. Don't have to do it in the in the therapy room with you.

:: 13:48:16

Noula Diamantopoulos

But when you encourage them to do that, that means you've got to follow up and you follow up every single week like a dog with a button and you say, hey, have you got anything done? Did you do anything? Yeah, I've gone to do some dancing. This is great. Tell me about the dancing that you want. You want to them to feel that they are being truly supported in an activity that they themselves are trying to figure out.

:: 14:12:11

Noula Diamantopoulos

Is this of any benefit to my mental health? I mean, and you're not that's not going to happen. If we're not continuously, then it takes five minutes to engage.

:: 14:22:03

Cherie Lindberg

While you're bringing what I'm hearing. There's a couple things here. Number one, I'm just my brain is just going like crazy listening to this. So one, when I think about the chunky medium that you're talking about, I'm like, there's the tactile right here. What we're getting them engrossed in, in the, in the tactile, which again is different things that you're talking about are expressions of embodiment, different ways that and bodying and feeling that which again is expressing the subcortical brain.

:: 14:55:00

Cherie Lindberg

Because folks don't do this on a daily basis. When you are checking in, you're bringing it back into their consciousness so that the it can start to become a habit and they can see the value of it because it's helping something released.

:: 15:11:04

Noula Diamantopoulos

Thank you for saying it that way. It's beautiful. That's exactly right. And what it does. Another thing that it does that just came to me as I was listening to you is that when we're checking in with them for this and they may come in and they may say, well, actually, I crocheted, I've crocheted this and they start to watch the sense of self start right to grow.

:: 15:33:00

Noula Diamantopoulos

Watch how their idea of who they are. So that to change which we want, that is part because our healing at the end of the day is about bringing them home to their innate self. That has been squashed by all of life's experiences. Right? It's still there.

:: 15:51:15

Cherie Lindberg

I'm just thinking of the beautiful Rumi quote is that we're all together at home.

:: 15:55:17

Noula Diamantopoulos

That's it.

:: 15:57:02

Cherie Lindberg

Yeah, that's that's that's it.

:: 16:00:12

Noula Diamantopoulos

So there's that. And then there's the sense of what the other thing that comes up as well is as hope.

:: 16:08:09

Cherie Lindberg

Yeah.

:: 16:09:13

Noula Diamantopoulos

We want as much hope in the room as we can get, you know, because, you know, so many of them said, I didn't think that I would like doing this. I mean, I did it because you kept on nagging me to do something this. And it was like an I did it. And it's like they find they trust this community connection.

:: 16:27:02

Noula Diamantopoulos

Right? So if we want to talk about it from a, you know, vagal perspective, there's your social engagement happening, right? There's the ability to express something that they're proud of and they feel good about themselves. And now they want more. And that translates now into the healing room as well. And we can we can work with that as well.

:: 16:48:22

Noula Diamantopoulos

And we I hate bringing signs sometimes into these kinds of things because they're so beautiful and organic and just self evidenced. But anyway, there is science about when we work with our hands and why why things like even if we sing because when we sing, we we move our body, we move our hands. Right? There is something going on in the brain when we're moving our hands that is creating positive neurological pathways.

:: 17:16:00

Noula Diamantopoulos

It's shifting things around. So working in clay, holding a pencil, drawing, shading, all of that kind of stuff. Building has got the healing elements in it, you know.

:: 17:25:15

Cherie Lindberg

You know, I just read a book, about writing it down, about journaling, and there's science in there about what you're talking about, even journaling, you know, with your hand and that it's opening up neural pathways. So when we do that.

:: 17:40:23

Noula Diamantopoulos

Yeah. Because and especially we do. Have you heard of Julia Cameron's Morning Pages?

:: 17:46:14

Cherie Lindberg

Isn't that did she write the artist way.

:: 17:48:18

Noula Diamantopoulos

It's like that one. Yeah. Yeah. So classic that one because that's done first thing in the morning before you're fully awake. It's more like automatic writing. You don't get dressed, have breakfast and then do. It's not a it's not a diary. It's like you're working up. Maybe you go to the bathroom and then you just write longhand. Can't copy.

:: 18:07:18

Noula Diamantopoulos

Done. Typing is different to holding. Doing it with a pen and a paper. And it's really a mental dump that goes for about three pages, no longer because it is suggested, suggested that up to three pages that we're starting now really to wake up and we're getting more cognitive, etc.. And in those pages, the intention is, is that you keep writing, you're not looking for the proper word or synonym of something you know, to make it.

:: 18:31:20

Noula Diamantopoulos

No, no, not whatever is coming to mind, to the point where if you're stuck, you just say, I'm stuck. I don't know what to write. I'm looking out the window now, and all of a sudden, bang, it starts again. The kinds of people that used to use this way of connecting with other unco conscious elements of self were oddest couple of centuries back ago, when new ways of expressing paint on the canvas were starting to be explored.

:: 19:00:10

Noula Diamantopoulos

So they would do this is automatic writing. Today we've got sports people, politicians, business people using automatic writing because what we're doing is clearing things that we don't know we holding on to.

:: 19:13:09

Cherie Lindberg

Well, this reminds me of flow states, right? You're talking about is getting engrossed and absorbed in something that's greater than ourselves, even like it's kind of taking this over and it's a coming from us and it's expressing, but we really don't, you know, that's a flow state when we're in that game.

:: 19:31:17

Noula Diamantopoulos

Flow. That's right. What happened? What what I've seen happen in morning pages is where sometimes people will write in the third person. For example, you just let that happen, or maybe a whole bunch of words that you would not normally use start coming out. You just let that happen. You cannot write as fast as you can think, so you're not going to grab every word.

:: 19:52:08

Noula Diamantopoulos

So it's going to become gobbledygook, you know? And the intention is, is that you don't keep it. You throw it away. There's nothing in that itself. It's not a diary. So, you know, just go get a cheap book from the supermarket, you know, an exercise book from the supermarket and right across the lines, not on the lines. Because it's not about that either.

:: 20:15:17

Noula Diamantopoulos

And just make sure you've got a pencil or a writing implement that. It's fluid. It's not scratchy for you do that for 21 days. See what happens. Be curious. Now I add a little bit to Julia's work, and what I do is I add to put down a couple of bullet points as to what your state of being is before you start, and then a couple of bullet points, what your state of being after you've finished.

:: 20:38:02

Noula Diamantopoulos

And notice because that's part of the self-awareness. So and you can become your own. You know, researcher to explore the benefits yourself of the creative and expressive arts by getting engaged yourself and noticing what what difference it's making to your life. You know, mental and emotional well-being.

:: 21:00:02

Cherie Lindberg

So this the podcast, we kind of have a tagline about stories of hope and healing. And so I was hoping that maybe you could think of a story of one of your folks that partook of the expressive arts, and that you observed some big growth.

:: 21:18:04

Noula Diamantopoulos

I have so many. I have so many. Maybe I'll just continue along the lines of space 22 where there's seven participants, right? None of them had any expressive or creative arts background. So a lot of them had fears about even putting anything on paper like real fears, very kind of panicky, you know, because they didn't were being filmed as well.

:: 21:40:02

Noula Diamantopoulos

Right. And so many of them, out of the seven, I can say to you, one of them has continued to do so because there was a singing element on space 22. One of them has continued to do that. But let me speak about the 1 to 3 people in particular from the seven right who have pursued drawing and painting in such a way.

:: 22:04:16

Noula Diamantopoulos

They cannot live without it now and they cannot live without. It's the thing that they go to. It's what they do. And what we did last year was we did a Little Space 22 exhibition and a fundraiser where they all participated. So it's gone beyond the show is what I want to say, right? And it's very publicly evidenced that the impact that the expressive artist has done on them and one of them, for example, who was a policewoman who used to and still does do surfing, that was her place, you know, that would help her to get through her stuff of what she'd seen throughout her career.

:: 22:42:06

Noula Diamantopoulos

That's one of the ones that is found that drawing is benefiting her so greatly. She's not stopping doing it. I've got one of her drawings here, in fact, that she gifted me, you know, she just it just gets totally absorbed in it all, you know? And she will all of them advocating the benefits of the creative and expressive arts.

:: 23:01:06

Noula Diamantopoulos

I can give you a neutral exercise that your audience could do if they are interested.

:: 23:05:08

Cherie Lindberg

And feel free.

:: 23:06:17

Noula Diamantopoulos

Okay, so what am I going to call this one? I'm going to call this one Stella Chances. Let's go for a splodge answer. So here's how we'll do it. You get a big piece of paper ice A3 right? And you write what your challenge is. But there's a little trick in how you're going to write your challenge. Please don't ask a question with the word why am I right?

:: 23:31:12

Noula Diamantopoulos

It's kind of self-evident that if you say, why does this happen to me all the time? Why am I not good enough to do that? You're not going to get an answer that's not invoking an answer, that's making a statement as to something that you believe about yourself. Right? So that's for another time. Let's go to a question that's that starts with how my I blah blah blah blah blah.

:: 23:58:11

Noula Diamantopoulos

How might I lose weight? How might I improve my KPIs at work? I don't know how might I? So that might already engage. Is the imagination this of that cool that the the mighty question and how is it at activating question. But it's requesting a response to an action that you might take. So this such answer is going to evoke, hopefully lots of different ways that you may be able to approach this, not just the one right answer, because there's no such thing as one right answer, right?

:: 24:34:02

Noula Diamantopoulos

So what are you going to do on your A3 page piece of paper once you've got your how might I, you know, question down, you're just going to get I don't care. You might be drinking tea or coffee or something. Just put some of that on your paper. You don't even need paints right. See I'm splashing it. Sitting literally means just going to make some stains on your paper.

:: 24:58:04

Noula Diamantopoulos

Let those stains dry once because it gets missed. If they're not dry once they're dry, you then going to get. If you've got some colored pencils or colored text as well, just a pen, it doesn't really matter. With fun in your heart, look at the splotches that you've made and create some crazy images from them. So think about don't don't make any sense out of these.

:: 25:25:23

Noula Diamantopoulos

You could have a frog face with the body of a train and the legs of a grasshopper, and they could be wearing one of those whirligig hats. You know, it could be smoking a cigar.

:: 25:43:05

Noula Diamantopoulos

Whatever. I put a big grin on them, you know, because as soon as you put a couple of eyes and a mouth on a splotch, you've got a creature. All right, so I'd better get that family of splotch, you know, creatures happening on your page, whatever they look like. Now comes the fun bit. And now I want you to look at those splotch images.

:: 26:06:13

Noula Diamantopoulos

And here's the question you're going to ask yourself. How might this image give me guidance to my question? So if you've got a smoking, you know, train that's good progress. Grass. Hopefully you want to think about the qualities that that creature holds. And you might find that, I'm inhaling some toxic stuff that's not helping the train move forward.

:: 26:39:07

Noula Diamantopoulos

So I can't lose weight because of some of the things that I'm taking in that maybe toxic. It's a real fun way of exploring you, right? What your situation is in a metaphoric way, with things that are unrelated to the original issue. So you're not looking at nutrition and or the normal ways that you would know, right? You're going deeply subcortical, deeply fun.

:: 27:02:00

Noula Diamantopoulos

Because we know it's fun. We learn more, right? We experience more. This is a fun thing you can do with your clients, by the way. You know, because some of the things that we do with our clients, even if even when we're working with trauma, they're also working with the positive neural circuitry. We're also working at times as educators is like we're doing some psychic with them.

:: 27:21:08

Noula Diamantopoulos

We're also sometimes just coaching.

:: 27:23:11

Cherie Lindberg

Right?

:: 27:24:10

Noula Diamantopoulos

We do different things, right?

:: 27:26:08

Cherie Lindberg

Yeah. And getting them out of their thinking brain.

:: 27:30:05

Noula Diamantopoulos

Getting them out of the thinking brain. Right.

:: 27:33:09

Cherie Lindberg

So anyways, that's the trouble in our culture right now. It's like do more, think more, do do do think think, think where is what is creating some of these things. Whereas we could slow down and take the time to express in a different way. Yeah, you could have a floor moment and let it move out of us, like you said, organically and naturally, spot on.

:: 28:01:09

Noula Diamantopoulos

So it's about switching channels. So if we look at our five sensory five senses, switch channels, switch from talking to to yeah, to doing something with our hands switch switch from talking to making a sound.

:: 28:16:04

Cherie Lindberg

Yeah.

:: 28:17:02

Noula Diamantopoulos

Switch from talking to recite them a piece of poetry.

:: 28:21:13

Cherie Lindberg

We know when I talk about this, I mean, you're using a different language, but I talk about shifting states.

:: 28:28:14

Noula Diamantopoulos

Yeah. Shifting channels the way that we experience the planet through fruit, through touch, through taste, you know, through sound, visuals, all of that kind of stuff. We switch channels.

:: 28:40:03

Cherie Lindberg

Yeah. Which is a brain loves novelty. It pays more attention. So if you're introducing something new and interesting, it's going to go on. It's going to pay out. Yeah.

:: 28:50:10

Noula Diamantopoulos

It's also developing something different in your if you're a relational based therapist then it's going to bring something else into the relationship. Right. So the clients then don't feel that they they're coming to you all the time because of this, because there is a it doesn't matter how collaborative we are and how we may present as you know, working that way as well.

:: 29:16:02

Noula Diamantopoulos

There is a differential. They're paying for our services. Right. And for me, bringing in the creative and expressive arts is an equalizer. So they'll do it. They'll do a splotchy creature. I'll do one as well. Right. So they can have a laugh at my one as much as it you know, might be laughing at their one.

:: 29:35:11

Cherie Lindberg

That's a way to join together.

:: 29:37:09

Noula Diamantopoulos

Yeah.

:: 29:38:08

Cherie Lindberg

Well Noula thank you so much for this evening and and sharing the expressive arts with us and what I'd like you to do if you have any, important links or your website links or so forth, like please send them to us so we can put them in the show notes.

:: 29:53:21

Noula Diamantopoulos

For will do. Yeah.

:: 29:54:21

Cherie Lindberg

Thank you for being with us this evening.

:: 29:56:17

Noula Diamantopoulos

Thank you so much. Today was an absolute joy. Thank you.

:: 30:01:07

Cherie Lindberg

I hope you all enjoy this beautiful podcast where we talked about mental health and how the expressive arts can help people express things that they're holding inside, and then it's a natural way that can help the body and brain heal itself. And I hope if you found this helpful that you will share it with your folks, your friends, your family, anyone else that might need a story of hope and healing?

:: 30:34:09

Cherie Lindberg

Again, we really like to invite healers. Reach out. If you are somebody that uses natural elements that support people's healing, please reach out to us. That's what we're looking to do is spread stories of hope and healing naturally, different things that you can do so that you can live an elevated life. Thank you. Until next time.

:: 31:03:10

Narrator

Thank you for joining us on another uplifting journey on Cherie Lindberg's Elevated Life Academy. Stories of Hope and healing. If you found resonance or connection with what you've heard today, we encourage you to share this episode and consider becoming a subscriber. Please spread the word so others can live an elevated life.