21: Whispers from Beyond: Navigating Grief Through a Paradigm Shift with Lenore Matthew

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Narrator

Hello and welcome to Cherie Lindberg's Elevated Life Academy. Stories of hope and healing through raw and heartfelt conversation, we uncover the powerful tools and strategies these individuals use to not only heal themselves, but also inspire those around them. Join us on this incredible journey as we discover the human spirit's remarkable capacity to heal, find hope in the darkest of moments, and ultimately live an elevated life.

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Cherie Lindberg

Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Elevated Life Academy. Stories of hope and healing. And once again, you know these podcasts. I get excited every single time when I get to talk to different healers from all over the world. And today is no exception. I'm going to have Dr. Lenore Matthew today, and I'm going to invite her to introduce herself.

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Cherie Lindberg

And we just had like a really exciting presentation. So I'm like, okay, we got to get this on the podcast here. So welcome, Doctor Lenore.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so thrilled to be here.

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Cherie Lindberg

Please introduce yourself and also share. You know, we kind of started off talking about complicated grief or even grief and how mental health doesn't offer an expansive view of that. So wherever you want to go with that, completely open.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

Okay. Thank you so much. So as as background and and of an introduction to the I and I'm a doctor of social work, Ph.D. and MSW, my technical background previously was in research and evaluation. So I worked at a macro level. I was an international policy in international nonprofits and national non-profits for quite some time. I was with the United Nations and other international NGOs.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

ur life changed completely in: 2020

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

. In retrospect, no vision is: 2020

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

And then I actually realized later on, as I started to understand my experience, they began happening several months before he passed. The night that he passed, it was a few hours after. What was the first time that he came to me? And I say media mystically. So really from the other side. I could see him, hear him, smell him, and feel him.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

And he was all around me energetically, even tangibly. And he gave me incredible information and that I was later able to objectively verify. This happens repeatedly, multiple times a day for days, weeks, months. It's been over four years, and he's still very present. But through his connection to me and connection to other people, I wasn't the only one having these experiences with him.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

Family members were other friends, and sometimes we'd get the same experience and call each other and realize that it was the same message and same and dream or vision, whatever it would be. But leaning into those experiences opened the door to something tremendous. So before, as I said, and looking back, it really was, you know, who I was at the time.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

To some extent, it kind of feels a little bit like a mask or a container of who I was before, you know, this very data oriented person. And, you know, this is professional and then sparks all of that crumble down when not only because I lost my husband and at a very young age or in our mid thirties when life is getting really good and some means that are extremely traumatic.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

And I'd never lost anyone very, very close to me before. So not only was it my first loss, but it, it was my partner of 13 years and to suicide. And then at the same time parallel to this and having these experiences that I could not explain and so that the good researcher I am, I documented everything I matrixes of objective and subjective information, dates, times.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

If there were pictures videos, oftentimes there were other people were with me, you know, emotionally what I felt if there were light bulbs that went off and understanding and explanation really of where I was in my process and in my grief, I talked to at this time, of course, I knew I could not do it alone. So I was seeing two grief counselors separately and I was very open with them and I clung to my identity.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

At first I was the kind of object of social work. I know I'm not crazy. I know I'm not nuts even though I feel crazy. And that's both because of the traumatic grief and loss and because of these mystic experiences. But I that it was the real thing that ever happens, the realist thing. And thankfully both of my counselors were extremely supportive and really helped me understand that A, this was very normal and B, it wasn't doing harm and then see that there was meaning and helped me really understand that unpack.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

So from there I it was several months later I fought this because again, like in my entire identity in every way was obliterated. But it got to the point where and I had seen a few mediums along the way in grief and I fought that It was like, this is absolutely bizarre. Like, I can't believe I'm doing this.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

Then. Now I'm a widow who sees mediums, what is my world? But there was so much comfort and solace from what I externalized to what I knew inside. And eventually it got to the point. A few months later, when I went to back to one of the meetings. So I trusted very much. And he said, Lenore, you know, you have some of this.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

And I was like, Well, what is this? Of course they knew what he meant. But, you know, playing coy like, oh my God, is this real? Whereas deep down, all I'd wanted was for someone to validate this or be. And he said, I know you can see Spirit. I know you talked to Bruno, my husband. I know he comes to you.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

I know the two of you can about like I know you know him as that. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Okay, so what do I do? And he said, we all get to choose what we do with our gifts. But if you so choose, you might consider developing as a medium. So I began developing as a medium. I began doing readings.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

little bit of reprieve. Just .: 00000

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

And I could actually feel my emotions when I would move my body, I began. I took a meditation certification with the Chopra Foundation, and eventually it led me to brain spotting and all of the different, you know, certifications and learning that I did. It was never really an ambition underneath. I knew and I already began helping other people on the way.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

Like I knew that that would be an important part of my my path and my track soul track, I suppose. But really it was I've got to do this for myself since this knowing no one could tell me otherwise. The mediumship, the Reiki, whatever it was, it's like I have to do this for myself. And Bruno was very much working with me.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

s past year. Other sees me in: 2023

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

But I just knew that doing mediumship readings for others had been an important part of my path, but really part of my sole reason was to help open up for other people or make a space of other people can open up to their abilities, validate that. And it was like, if we need a sacrificial lamb, like put me out there and totally fine saying, No, you're not crazy.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

No, you haven't made this up. No, it's not in your mind. And so helping people in that regard, doing workshops. And I knew that there was something else that was missing, but I wasn't sure professionally, but in my personal life there was just this underlying cloak of it felt like a weighted anchor in my body that every day was a fight underneath, every day, to varying degrees.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

, I would be like -: 1000

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

And I got to the point where I was like, I can't coexist with this anymore, woman. I can't do this anymore. And any suicide loss survivor, any widow, any person who's lost someone who is like an a part of their body, they're so close has been to a point where they feel like, I can't do this anymore. And I'd been there before, but this was very different.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

This is like I have done so much work and I know that I have and I feel that. And yet still there is this omnipresent darkness in my body, heaviness.

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Cherie Lindberg

Heaviness like, like really disregulated.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

And I didn't have that language then, but that's exactly what it was. Yeah. And what happened with that and this is kind of leading then to where I am now is something just popped into me intuitively and it was like I was talking to my parent, My family was here over the holidays and I said, I feel like my brain is on fire.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

I got to get into my subconscious even more than I have. I have no idea why or how I knew how. And it just came to me. It was like, you've got to do brain spotting. Lenore I knew nothing really about it. I knew it was somewhat related to EMDR. I had never done either modality at this point, but it just every fiber of my being.

00;11;04;02 - 00;11;35;02

Dr. Lenore Matthew

And by now I know if I have that yes in my body, I don't need to know why I, I need to pursue it. I live in Hawaii where the number of mental health practitioners per capita is not as generous as in some other places. And I began just calling and emailing everyone that I could. And I came across an amazing psychologist here on the island that I live on, and I contacted her, assuming she would have a long wait list, which most people here do, and she happened to have an opening in a couple of weeks.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

And by now I had learned some part of my platform is being so honest about my mediumship and my intuitive abilities. Whenever I talk to someone, a helping professional, I make sure that they know at the outset it's almost like me vetting. Is it safe for me? Those are these experiences. My husband is very mature, I'm a medium, etc. and she's a no problem.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

I work with mediums. Well, my goodness. Okay, Jack. Wow. And I saw her for our first session, which happened to be serendipitously on Valentine's Day. And after the first session, I walked out of the office and it was like the world was in Technicolor and I could feel like physically feel myself in a different way. And since then, it's been several months now.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

I have not felt sadness and grief. That cloak is not there anymore. It's gone. And then there were several other sessions I had after that where I released deep anger that I didn't even know was there. And and it's opened up to these incredible and intuitive and spiritual encounters and brain spotting. But after the first session, it was the deepest knowing of I've got to train in this, I have got to offer this to people.

00;12;49;01 - 00;13;12;03

Dr. Lenore Matthew

And so what I do now is I offer brain spotting. I have gone and you can see I just I love the model. There's nothing like it. There's absolutely nothing like it. And and it's this incredible blend of the neuroscientific, the deep data driven site, the somatic last, the spiritual and the intuitive. And part of the work that I do now then is that size is seeing clients one on one.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

A lot of people who were in a similar position of me as I was, as they've gone through something very traumatic, usually the loss of a loved one, they've gone through a lot of healing and there's still something there. And I feel in that in with the intuitive side, with Reiki, with a little bit of breathwork, with some meditation.

00;13;29;04 - 00;13;48;20

Dr. Lenore Matthew

And then the other side of the work that I do has gone full circle back to the research. And I have a research lab and a lot of public speaking really advocating for a shift in the mental health world, in grief and in trauma, to include, yes, we need our CBT. Yes, we need our CBT, yes, we need our cognitive approaches.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

But that is such a sliver when we're dealing with trauma traumatic loss, you need to involve the Soma, the body, the spirit and the soul. Our loved ones on the other side are higher cells, our soul. And so it's really it's conducting research. Part of what I do is conducting research on different modalities that bring this in. And then another big part of it is talking about this and advocating it, especially in the mental health.

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Cherie Lindberg

Beautiful, beautiful. So talk to me more about so that our listeners can understand how brain spotting and mediumship can support grief and loss in a more expansive way.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

Yes, such a good question. I have goosebumps all over. One of my pieces are affirmations, confirmations as goosebumps. So I think they're they're important in their own right, in their own domain, and then also how they interact. I'll start with mediumship when we lose someone. There are all these, especially when it's unexpected or not, but when we lose someone that we love very much, I'll say that someone who is so close to us, they're like a part of us.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

There is information coming in from everywhere. There's unsolicited advice. There's no information on social media, there are books, whatever it is, there are also internal dialogs that are happening and oftentimes some self-criticism or doubt, especially if this is uncharted territory. And that was very much the case with me. And parallel to that, it's also there can be for some people, this experience of whatever or is out there.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

I'll take it if it does anything to help just a little bit. And I was sort of at the intersection of these two different kind of veins when it came to mediumship. On one hand it's like, this is crazy. People are going to think I'm nuts, especially having my own experiences. Society said this, that this is like not real.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

It's woo woo, whatever, You know, we hear all these things or what we see as well socially or socio culturally. What we understand about mediumship is it's, you know, a boardwalk's psychic or it's dark. And so there's Hollywood sensationalized views of what this is. We don't see it as what it actually is, which is the by pure love and connection that continues to happen.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

And that parallels then this internal dialog of I know I need to take care of myself, I know I need something, anything. And so with mediumship. So I see that at the outset. And just as for listeners, that's going through loss and not even just lost are trauma mediums, and psychics can be incredibly helpful for both. It's like surrendering to what you know in your body that you at least want to explore, that you're curious about and allowing ourselves that space.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

So what mediumship can do and this is part of the research that one of the research studies that I'm doing is looking at how mediumship can open up profound ongoing healing with our loved ones. On the other side, there's kind of the fallacy around what mediumship does and maybe not fallacy, but a kind of a sweeping view of what it can do, which is one last goodbye or one last hello.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

I think one last goodbye is like a really hard that's pretty harsh wording, but even just, you know, one last phone call and the research that I've done, there's a study that I'm working on with 14 widows who saw multiple mediums for multiple readings. And again, there's this viewer site. If you're seeing a medium many times, then you're dependent, which is not the case.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

Say that if someone is seeing their counselor many times. But what I found is over time, seeing mediums over time actually helps the ongoing healing process. And yes, there's that first reading where, okay, I have evidence, maybe I believe it, it's still on the fence, but there's evidence that my loved one is still here and that's one layer.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

And then as we move forward, whether it's seeing other mediums or whether someone is then opened up to their own abilities, they begin meditating or, you know, connecting in a different way through Breathwork, Kundalini, whatever it may be, it opens up this path of getting to know our loved ones on the other side. Then becomes a sort of symbiotic relationship where we understand a layer and feel a healing layer and they understand something on their side and they feed it back and it's just kind of back and forth, a mutually supportive insight, an opening of physiological change and really regulation that happened.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

Nervous system away from the feeling of contacting, connecting to Spirit and B from the information that helps our cognitive mind. And it's satiated what we need to.

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Cherie Lindberg

Know.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

Now. So for me, in my experience with Bruno, in my what my husband on the other side, it has been and so very presence, very present and our relationship has evolved to the space where it's just huge. The love that we had before, we were a very loving, very peaceful couple and the love that we have now transcends and is even bigger than spousal, romantic love.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

And then people ask me, you know, is this holding you back from your life? And they say, No, I'm not re partnered right now. And yet I know that that's coming. I also know I don't have children. I know that I will. And I know that Bruno is going to be a really important part of that, making sure that, you know, helping me out.

00;19;03;29 - 00;19;27;11

Dr. Lenore Matthew

And however that comes along, if I had not had my relationship with my husband and the healing that we did together over the last several years, I am sure an absolutely sure I would be stuck in the past and lament passing and feeling guilty about wanting to remarry. And now because we know each other, like it's like masks are off, there is more hiding, no B.S., none of that.

00;19;27;19 - 00;19;47;29

Dr. Lenore Matthew

And also through our relationship he re live with after he passed, he really helped me understand his suicide and why it happened. They uncovered depths of things that I would have never known. Both meet him physically. He helped me understand, but also he gave me objective information and I uncovered that he had gone through a horrific childhood trauma that he never talked about, ever.

00;19;47;29 - 00;20;12;25

Dr. Lenore Matthew

There's tremendous evolution. And as you said, expansion. It's that it's the expansion of ourselves, of our soul, of love, of healing. And it so transcends this very narrow model of we get over the shock at some point, and then we learn to fold their memory into our lives and we learn to carry the pain. And it's just kind of always there, but we can move forward.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

And that's so linear and so narrow. And this perspective of working with our loved ones on the other side is so big and just so transcends limits and bounds. Brain spotting then does. And for me it was mediumship to brain spotting. For some people that I'm working with, they are going, they do brain spotting, and then this opens up their connections to loved ones on the other side.

00;20;35;15 - 00;20;56;04

Dr. Lenore Matthew

So and there's no, you know, specific this happens and then that does not at all. There's no formula whatsoever. There's a relationship, but no linear formula of how the process moves. There is no process, again, is open. But in brain spotting, it brings in both the neurobiological healing and I say healing, and I use that. And also scientific context.

00;20;56;09 - 00;21;23;28

Dr. Lenore Matthew

But my body hurts, my brain hurts, my heart hurts, and brain spotting moves in. It brings the most beautiful aspects and soothing aspects of energy healing of spirituality. If you're working with a practitioner that sets the container in a spiritual way, that's how I work. That's how the the practitioner I worked with as a client works. We set that container of inviting our loved ones, inviting our souls, you know, and making us spiritual as we want it to be.

00;21;24;00 - 00;21;45;00

Dr. Lenore Matthew

But then it moves into the subconscious in a way that is irrefutably scientific. We're working with our subcortical in a way that acts as we know it through the visual field and through the retina of the eye. It moves into the body that even if the spiritual side, we're not someone's cup of tea, there is tremendous release healing.

00;21;45;02 - 00;22;06;11

Dr. Lenore Matthew

Just I almost feel it in my body. I just like this, like soothing that happens. And also the purging as well. And you're not the same after. And I explain to people that I work with, it's not like it arises. What happens. We I hold very dearly and closely everything that my husband and I went through, what he went through in childhood, what I went through in the aftermath of his passing.

00;22;06;13 - 00;22;34;02

Dr. Lenore Matthew

It's there. I know it is. It's just not emotionally charged and so much understanding and so much compassion and love for what he went through, what I went through, and even by extension, of course, what other people who've had similar experiences to us have had, but then also even people that hurt him. I have so much compassion for them now that there's no way that I had before, because I understand that severe dysregulation.

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Dr. Lenore Matthew

And so in terms of looking really at the mental health field, we're given options in the grief space. The predominant option is talking about it or actually the the problem is not talking about it. But if we go for help, it's, you know, talk therapy or talk counseling. And that has tremendous value. And we need to talk about it.

00;22;52;23 - 00;23;12;29

Dr. Lenore Matthew

It's also when we talk with our counselors that helps us integrate what's happened. There's tremendous, though. There's education that happens, but that is not enough when we're dealing with trauma and emotions. And that's where brain spotting and even mediumship allow us to move even further. And I would say forward as well, because we're bringing in the nervous system or bringing in the brain.

00;23;13;01 - 00;23;32;06

Dr. Lenore Matthew

We're also bringing in the soul in the spirit, and then connection to other energies that are guides, that are help, that are kind of in embodiment in an energetic way of how to move forward in a way that feels authentic and, like you said, expansive.

00;23;32;08 - 00;23;57;19

Cherie Lindberg

This is beautiful. So when all this was going on for you and you and I can like I said, I totally can vibe with this because, yeah, you know, you spent your a lot portion of your life legitimizing everything through education, academia and all that. And then you're having these experiences that you're like, What is this? Who can I talk to about this?

00;23;57;21 - 00;24;19;18

Cherie Lindberg

How did you, like, accept or let that come in and trust these intuitive, you know, experiences? Obviously, it's led to your freedom, the spiritual and emotional freedom. So describe that, like how you were getting into some level of acceptance or trust in these abilities.

00;24;19;20 - 00;24;40;16

Dr. Lenore Matthew

Yeah, that's such a good question. I think it was multi pillared. It was very fortunate. So after when Bruno passes, as I said, as the onset of COVID essentially, and we were living abroad and so I'm back to the U.S., I stayed with my parents. So my first year was lockdown grief. But on the other hand, it's like I had no choice but to confront what was happening.

00;24;40;16 - 00;24;57;11

Dr. Lenore Matthew

I couldn't, you know, go out and whatever in the world and extract myself. And I had actually just before a few months before, he was all about maybe I can't remember how many months now it was the year before, a few months before he passed had actually resigned from my job at the U.N. and I just had this hole in my stomach.

00;24;57;11 - 00;25;18;05

Dr. Lenore Matthew

I couldn't explain it, but I was like, I know I'm moving towards something different and I think I'm starting my own business and practice, which was never on my radar before. And then of course, that would happen years later. But when all of this happened, when it started opening up, there were a few things that really helped me at least be okay ish with myself as it was happening.

00;25;18;05 - 00;25;37;14

Dr. Lenore Matthew

And then kind of acceptance and trust came in iterations over time. So the first is I was very open and honest with people that I trusted and love, and our circle gets a lot smaller when we lose people. When someone passes away who we trust gets smaller, who we feel we can be our authentic selves with, gets a lot smaller.

00;25;37;16 - 00;25;55;25

Dr. Lenore Matthew

We find new people by whatever way we connect with. And in this new kind of being of where we are after a traumatic loss. But I was very open with my parents and they were very accepting. They were having their own experiences, like things flying off the shelves, like the lights flickering electronically, like all kinds of weird things.

00;25;55;25 - 00;26;13;18

Dr. Lenore Matthew

And they were just like, well, we can't that. Yeah, because, you know, these wild things I have on my website, I have some articles that I've published and some talk about the different signs that are just might be just wild. But I was very open with people that I loved and trusted and so my parents, my best friends, my sister, and that helped me just get it out.

00;26;13;18 - 00;26;41;05

Dr. Lenore Matthew

So I wasn't ruminating in my own mind and parallel to that. And I was very honest with my counselors as well. And I invited them to somehow I knew had the foresight at two weeks after my husband passed when I was I'm looking for counselors. You need to know that these experiences are happening. And they were to say like, Oh, it's just grief, or which some of my colleagues, friends and peers have experienced from their counselors or, you know, Oh, we should really do a run a diagnostic.

00;26;41;05 - 00;27;00;15

Dr. Lenore Matthew

This might be delusion. And yeah, I know, right. And it's ah, this extreme dissociation. Yeah. And in the mental health world, if someone has not gone through this, I understand how. Yes. We've been trained this way. Yes we've this is what our textbooks have told us through grad school. But when you're living it, it is like I am not associated.

00;27;00;15 - 00;27;20;14

Dr. Lenore Matthew

I there's no way that the stack of Swiss franc coins, which appeared in the floor of my parents house out of nowhere, like, there's no way that that would be there in the main thoroughfare house other than like, there's no explanation for it or there's no reason the reason why that book fell off the shelf open and inside was a picture of my husband's.

00;27;20;17 - 00;27;45;14

Dr. Lenore Matthew

There's no reason why the things that he's told me I was later able to validate with other people. I'm not delusional. I'm not being wrong, though misleading. This is something that I can't explain, but it's very real. So confiding in people that I trusted both personally and professionally was Piller. The second thing was I, and this was a struggle, but I opened up to consulting other trusted professionals in the energy space.

00;27;45;18 - 00;28;03;23

Dr. Lenore Matthew

And now I work with mediums all the time, like I'm out as a medium. All these different aspects of mediums are incredible, and I've also met other clinicians are also mediums that into it. But at first we have no idea where to go. And so I'll also say on my website there is a resource page of where do you go to find mediums and so on, and where do you go for training?

00;28;03;23 - 00;28;24;23

Dr. Lenore Matthew

Like I put that there because I had to figure it out myself that it was a rough road. But yeah, seeing mediums, that is such a beautiful, not only validation for me it was the main reason I went, yes, I wanted to connect to Bruno, but it was really I wanted validation of what was going on with me and I was the worst client at first as a medium.

00;28;24;23 - 00;28;46;09

Dr. Lenore Matthew

My it so cynical, so tightlipped, like very opposite to my affect. I'm usually very like warm and bubbly person, but I just sat there like this is total. This is like I know and I'll even say it, but the ways that mediums can pick up on I can feel when someone is a medium now I know now I can feel of other people and mediums feel that of ourselves.

00;28;46;09 - 00;29;14;08

Dr. Lenore Matthew

And also the first medium that I saw was amazing and they recounted to me, there's no way that they could have known. It was nowhere was it on social media at this time, like my blog business were not in existence yet. And he explained to me he got the exact same vision of the first vision that Bruno gave me the night he passed, which was extremely detailed of what he wanted at his celebration of life.

00;29;14;08 - 00;29;31;24

Dr. Lenore Matthew

And there was no obituary. There's no way that he could have known that. And so for me, what that did was not only validate, yes, that Bruno's here and it gave some comfort of, okay, listen to him more than anything. It gave me comfort and solace that I am. Yes. Like I am connected to my husband. What is happening in my body is real.

00;29;31;24 - 00;29;57;22

Dr. Lenore Matthew

Someone else who has no idea has objectively verified that for me. And the other thing. Right. So Casey, a support professionals from three to or support from three different places personal if possible professional counselor, professional from energy healers and not all of us have available to us, for example, professional or well, professional support or personal support. That's reason why a lot of us go inward is because we feel like we can't tell anybody.

00;29;57;24 - 00;30;17;00

Dr. Lenore Matthew

So another part of that also is looking for community, if at all possible. And so part of that, the way that we can do that is going into our own kind of training. And then I think another part with that. Yes. So kind of another arm even extension would be beginning to explore your abilities through training. And when I did that, then it really exploded.

00;30;17;00 - 00;30;38;00

Dr. Lenore Matthew

And that's where the acceptance came for me, because then I was reading for other people, knowing things about their loved ones that I could not have known otherwise. So yeah, I think it's it's really kind of allowing ourselves to get out of our own. Isolation is a process in its own right. But once we do step out, that's when and of the understanding, the trust, the validation.

00;30;38;02 - 00;30;59;23

Cherie Lindberg

While and I'm hearing and an openness and a curiosity as well it has I mean if you don't explore these things and get the validation like you want, you won't know. Yeah. Therefore. And now let's talk about. Okay, so you got all this, you were experiencing all this and then you decided, Oh, I'm going to bring this out to the world.

00;30;59;29 - 00;31;01;24

Cherie Lindberg

What was that like?

00;31;01;26 - 00;31;24;15

Dr. Lenore Matthew

Oh, my goodness. It was an internal battle, but it also was the deepest knowing of I know that this is not happening for me to keep it inside. And I think that that knowing it was just it was at my soul, feel it in my just in my heart, in my core. It's just this is I just knew that this is part of the reason why I was here.

00;31;24;15 - 00;31;44;12

Dr. Lenore Matthew

And Bruno would tell me this. And I'm meditations, too. And I knew that. And I knew that it was speaking truth to the awakening of one's abilities. And it was speaking truth to not hiding in alone around his passing. And I said from the very beginning, before I understood any of this, I mean, for months I said, I am not a medium.

00;31;44;12 - 00;32;06;10

Dr. Lenore Matthew

This is whacko. Like, absolutely not. And of course then I would never use that terminology or say that anymore. But that's how I felt. But at the very beginning, I mean, even with his passing, there are some people who are saying it was an accident. And I came out very strongly and told, you know, everyone in our circle know they I were not hiding how he died.

00;32;06;12 - 00;32;34;21

Dr. Lenore Matthew

The least that we can do is honor that this was this was a suicide. This is what happened. So we do is honor his passing of that. The way that he died is that there clearly were so many secrets before in his life that this could happen with nobody having any idea that it would happen. So many secrets before I refuse to live in secrecy is sort of way around his death from my experience.

00;32;34;23 - 00;32;55;26

Dr. Lenore Matthew

And so that was I think that was really from like from the get go after he passed. And I still hold that. I guess that is what it is. And that is our truth. And I know that part of Bruno's and my contract or relationship or whatever it is, was to speak truth to all of these from the trauma to the beautiful arts, but to speak truth.

00;32;55;26 - 00;33;16;17

Dr. Lenore Matthew

Our experience was that soul knowing of like, I have to do this, like my purpose, my rebuilding, my kid. So he was bringing the little pieces together of this pottery and allowing it to rebuild through the golden paint. It's through this like, I don't know how where I don't know how long it's going to take, but I knew that it was.

00;33;16;19 - 00;33;38;18

Dr. Lenore Matthew

And so from there it was. It's about ten, 11 months. I want to say after he passed that, I opened my website and blog and social media. And the idea was, well, I don't know that there really was an idea beyond like, I've got to share this out there. And part of that was I was not seeing anywhere in the grief space.

00;33;38;20 - 00;33;59;04

Dr. Lenore Matthew

Talk about what was happening now. I read space a little bit, much more, but now there is some talk about it, but it's still a little bit. It's I wasn't feeling the conversation in a way that like what is happening with me? How is this helping me heal? It was more only if it came out. It was only about and you receive a sign and there's so with us I was like, It is so much more than that, right?

00;33;59;10 - 00;34;22;02

Dr. Lenore Matthew

So it was missing from the grief space, but it was also missing from the mediumship space. So when I would read books by mediums, it was I mean the story almost every time was, you know, I started seeing my grandmother spirit when I was two or three years old. And I always knew I was a medium. I was like, well, I'm an adult in my thirties at that point older now, but this isn't my story.

00;34;22;02 - 00;34;38;00

Dr. Lenore Matthew

And it happens in something in the context of something very traumatic. There has to be. I can't be the only person, and if I am the only person, so be it. But as soon as I launched my social media and my blog, then I started getting messages from people. Me too. Me too. Me too. Now what do we do with this?

00;34;38;00 - 00;34;38;15

Dr. Lenore Matthew

What do I do?

00;34;38;15 - 00;35;11;13

Cherie Lindberg

I write. Yeah. Wonderful. Well, I'm so glad that you listened to your intuition and put that out there, because now maybe we can have a different conversation and see. Because even what you're sharing is you're trusting in this uncertain process. And I mean, that's what we teach in brain spanning how to live in uncertainty. And you trusted in that and you knew how wanted to show up in this honest way and put it out here.

00;35;11;15 - 00;35;34;25

Cherie Lindberg

And by doing that, giving the world and people that have experience what you've experienced an opportunity to talk about grief in an expansive way. Yeah. Which is absolutely beautiful because, you know, listening to a story, there are a lot of folks that get held back or stuck in that trauma.

00;35;34;27 - 00;35;35;15

Dr. Lenore Matthew

Yeah.

00;35;35;18 - 00;35;44;04

Cherie Lindberg

And so this is a possibility of an alternative pathway. Yes. Which is beautiful here.

00;35;44;07 - 00;36;04;14

Dr. Lenore Matthew

Yeah. Yes, it is a paradigm shift. And we are told I was told I will always hurt to some degree. I was told it's like we have two options. It's the toxic positivity of like gratitude, yay, rah rah. Which after my husband died, like, I'm a pretty grateful person, but I was grateful for like, gratitude. Just the resonance wasn't there.

00;36;04;14 - 00;36;24;24

Dr. Lenore Matthew

And how could it be? Well, cognitive dissonance, right? How can one expect themselves to be like, Yes, I am grateful that I have food and shelter and family. Of course I am. And the magnitude of the pain that I feel right now washes that away. And again, that's that kind of that mind, body spirit that I always had.

00;36;24;26 - 00;36;50;00

Dr. Lenore Matthew

I grappled with. I was like battling with my mind. The mindfulness and these different approaches. They helped, yes. But I felt like I was trying to control my mind, brains, body moods passed the mind of the cognition into the brain, into the subconscious. That, for me transcended the power of that, transcend did the mind. And now mindfulness and how I work with my mind is very different.

00;36;50;00 - 00;36;56;23

Dr. Lenore Matthew

I don't have to fight it. It just naturally and it organically moves into a different, easier space.

00;36;56;25 - 00;37;13;07

Cherie Lindberg

And that's what we we talk about. And it's just beautiful to hear the story because we do talk about like our brains and bodies already know how to do this. We just have to set it, set the tone or, or hold the space in a way, and the letter brains and bodies do what they're naturally inclined to do.

00;37;13;09 - 00;37;36;27

Cherie Lindberg

Yes. And it really is. Our spirits, our souls want to move towards healing. They want to live. And this is why I have elevated Life Academy. They want to live in an elevated way. And the plan I mean, just to kind of piggyback off of what you're saying is I really believe, like we're here to evolve. Yes, that's what we're here to do.

00;37;36;27 - 00;38;08;23

Cherie Lindberg

And then these blocks get in the way. And breathing is one way to help release those blocks so that the natural healing capacities can flourish. Men sitting here with you, listening to your story and knowing that because you trusted yourself and you opened up to these gifts that were coming, you are naturally moving into this post-traumatic growth and flourishing space that a lot of people wouldn't even have thought was possible after listening to your story.

00;38;08;26 - 00;38;20;02

Cherie Lindberg

So just having you on and people listening gives another possibility. And it's so it's very beautiful. And I really appreciate you coming on and sharing.

00;38;20;04 - 00;38;46;12

Dr. Lenore Matthew

Thank you so much. And if I can underscore one thing of what I said before, of we're told in grief, we're told in suicide loss, we're told in widowhood, we're told when we've lost someone we love so much, that will always hurt. Yeah, you almost and I had mentioned that before. I was told that I internalized like I was like, yeah, but probably I mean, this hurts even as over time and with so much healing, it got less and less, but it was still there with brain spotting.

00;38;46;15 - 00;39;14;17

Dr. Lenore Matthew

It is no longer there anymore. And whether it's responding or someone else may find their own modality. But at now I understand that the hurt that hurt that I felt the four years after acute grief is very different. Like I was still trying to understand, but four years after, the hurt that I still felt was dysregulation, a severe dysregulation that I didn't even know was there because I was showing up for life and, you know, projecting and many days feeling like I'm doing okay.

00;39;14;19 - 00;39;49;16

Dr. Lenore Matthew

But now looking back, I see that it was a dysregulated nervous system really, that had been dysregulated since childhood, very early childhood. And that, of course, was exacerbated after my husband passed. And so when the mental health world and when the grief space tell us that we're always going to hurt, I think it's really doing a disservice because it's not looking at the power of severe regulation paired with an incredible opening to what could be which comes oftentimes from the spiritual opening connection, spiritual curiosity, and then also with with time.

00;39;49;16 - 00;40;12;27

Dr. Lenore Matthew

That is a function, of course. And then what is another facet of that, I think, is what is someone's unique soul path. I know that I needed to go through those four years of pain to be able to feel how I feel now. I could not have rushed it. And while there was some alleviation over time, like the eradication for me of that deep grief needed to come after everything that I've learned and grown into over time.

00;40;13;04 - 00;40;37;22

Dr. Lenore Matthew

But really it's changing the conversation and changing the possibility and moving away from someone is ill, sick. Wrong should be fixed because they're hurt. Whatever caused them hurt, whether it's a loss of loss of a loved one or something else, and opening the possibilities of what could really make their body, their heart, their soul open and receive light.

00;40;37;22 - 00;40;40;08

Dr. Lenore Matthew

Give light, be light.

00;40;40;11 - 00;41;03;13

Cherie Lindberg

So you're opening up cultural. You're creating these paradigm shifts because and here's another thing I'm thinking as you were talking, is that sometimes we had this programing that is inside of us that we should be this way, we should be that way, We should think or feel this way. And then when we don't, a lot of folks get scared because it's like, Oh my gosh, I'm not normal.

00;41;03;19 - 00;41;29;16

Cherie Lindberg

What's wrong with me? And stead of let's be really curious and celebrate difference, celebrate possibility. And so now by you sharing this again, this is why it's called stories of hope and healing. Now. Now we have a possibility of a different trajectory. Yeah, well, thank you for underscoring that. And thank you for for being here and in sharing your beautiful story.

00;41;29;18 - 00;41;32;24

Cherie Lindberg

And I wish you all the best moving forward.

00;41;32;26 - 00;41;35;03

Dr. Lenore Matthew

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

00;41;35;04 - 00;42;21;13

Cherie Lindberg

You're so welcome. So I hope you enjoyed this beautiful story of Dr. Eleanor Mathew and how something that was very tragic through her openness, her love and her ability to explore are some of these experiences that were happening for her has now led to helping other people with tragic loss and complicated Greece know that there is a possibility of thriving and moving into flourishing and post-traumatic growth after such a tragic loss.

00;42;21;16 - 00;42;53;00

Cherie Lindberg

I want to thank her for her authentic sharing her story. And I want to thank Bruno, too. I haven't met you, but thank you so much for being with us, Dr. Lenore, and for her research so that we can connect science and spirit. And if this moved you or if this could be helpful to some of your loved ones, if you could please share the podcast again, we're trying to get it out there sharing stories of hope and healing and spreading it around the world.

00;42;53;02 - 00;42;55;11

Cherie Lindberg

Thank you.

00;42;55;13 - 00;43;14;12

Narrator

Thank you for joining us. On another uplifting journey on Cherie Lindberg's Elevated Life Academy Stories of hope and healing. If you found resonance or connection with what you've heard today, we encourage you to share this episode and consider becoming a subscriber. Please spread the word so others can live an elevated life.