22: Embracing Growth: Paul and Cherie Lindberg's Journey to Transforming Relationships

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Narrator

Hello and welcome to Cherie Lindberg's Elevated Life Academy. Stories of hope and healing through raw and heartfelt conversation, we uncover the powerful tools and strategies these individuals use to not only heal themselves, but also inspire those around them. Join us on this incredible journey as we discover the human spirit's remarkable capacity to heal, find hope in the darkest of moments, and ultimately live an elevated life.

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Cherie Lindberg

Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Elevated Life Academy, where I am your host, Cherie Lindberg. And today we have a very special guest. My office manager and spouse, Paul Lindberg. And today's topic is about relationships and connection. And we thought it might be a good idea to share about how we have continued to be able to stay in connection, how we've learned to stay in connection.

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Cherie Lindberg

We've used imago dialog, brain spotting and parts work to continue our own healing journeys to help us understand ourselves and help each other understand each other and grow in compassion for each other. I would say at the core of our relationship is we both agreed that we want to work to being our higher self as much as possible.

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Cherie Lindberg

But I will let Paul introduce himself and he can talk about how his retirement's going and what else he wants to share.

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Paul Lindberg

Well, thanks for having me. Yes, it's not really a retirement because now I'm working for you and it's actually quite busy with all the changes that happened with the business. So but it gives me more flexibility in my schedule. And I'm really enjoying working with you and growing the business and being able to be a little flexible on what I can do.

00;02;00;26 - 00;02;13;23

Paul Lindberg

So as far as what I use and what we listen to each other for our connection, it was probably, I don't know how many years ago that we go down for the training as it continued, Oh.

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Cherie Lindberg

My gosh, it's done longer than now.

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Paul Lindberg

Well, I'm talking about the week long training.

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Cherie Lindberg

When you followed the training with me. Yeah, that's probably been about 15 years ago.

00;02;23;00 - 00;02;46;13

Paul Lindberg

Okay. So yeah, about ten, 15 years ago, she and I, we went out for weekends down to say, and it was a four day. Each time we went down as four days and that was to learn and become Michael. Coaches and I went through the same training that Cherie did. So I then there were I think there was five or six other therapists and art coach and her trainer.

00;02;46;14 - 00;03;16;12

Paul Lindberg

So that was just while I was really starting to go back. We did go attend a Get The Love You Want workshop and we worked it somewhat, but we really needed some guidance and so that's why we decided to go to the training Together role after the completion of the training series on a micro coach. And I am what is known as a nitwit, which is a non a margot therapy therapist with a micro training.

00;03;16;18 - 00;03;34;01

Paul Lindberg

So I'm considered a network, but it was really eye opening for me to go through the training, especially to see what she does on a day to day basis with clients and having to be present and with her clients for an hour at a time. That was amazing to kind of try to go through that and understand that.

00;03;34;01 - 00;03;58;03

Paul Lindberg

So I have a much more respect for what she does with her clients and all therapists, really. So that was our Imago training. And I also once a month for my two attempts. I see. And I asked Coach terraforming what system So working on like parts I was, I did that well once a week for a while and then I went to a couple of times a month.

00;03;58;03 - 00;04;08;12

Paul Lindberg

Now I'm down to about once a month, just kind of tune up just to check in. Sometimes I see stuff that's kind of percolating, sometimes there isn't, but we eventually plan something. So I've been using that also.

00;04;08;15 - 00;04;17;07

Cherie Lindberg

And do you think in using brain spotting as well like that helped you open so that you could get access to do the coaching or do you think it's a combination of both?

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Paul Lindberg

Yeah, the brain spotting was.

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Cherie Lindberg

About five years ago.

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Paul Lindberg

Yeah.

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Cherie Lindberg

Yeah.

00;04;21;22 - 00;04;53;21

Paul Lindberg

Well, I did some brain spotting prior to that with another therapist and I'm I'm not a sit and talk person. So what I do when I process is I find the spot, I close my eyes and I release her. So I find myself when I'm working, which Sheree when we're dialoging or if I'm working with my IEPs coach, I find that I have an eye placement and I kind of go there, I guess, the gaze spot, and then it's easier for me to process.

00;04;53;21 - 00;05;06;07

Paul Lindberg

So that's how I still use the brain spotting and it's kind of second nature now. I don't even know I'm doing it. She goes, I'll teach, you know, that. She said, Oh yeah, great. So yeah. So that's how I use the brain spotting also.

00;05;06;07 - 00;05;23;16

Cherie Lindberg

Yeah, I would agree. Like when we're coaching even now, like both of us can tell where an eye positions when we're doing the dialog and, and we have a training mindful coach regulation of relationships that stacks all these skills that we're talking about. And it's one of the reasons why we have the training is because this is what worked for us.

00;05;23;18 - 00;05;59;18

Cherie Lindberg

And I think especially what I would like to highlight is the fact that we got married the day after I turned 21, and then Paul was 25, and neither one of us were aware of the level of attachment, wounding and trauma that we had. And so all of these skills that we learned over the years, the Imago dialog brain starting and parts work, you know, really helped us, I think, heal these wounded parts of ourselves and then be able to start, I don't know, maybe peace treaties between each other and skills so that we could handle conflict better and stay connected.

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Paul Lindberg

Yeah, it was it was each one of them was a different tool in the toolbox for us. And that allowed us to, for me at least, what it allowed to was were more of an, I guess, an even playing role because in the past, because of the the training that you had, I would pick on a lot of what you were saying and get defensive, not understand.

00;06;19;21 - 00;06;44;01

Paul Lindberg

And I would shut down. I'm considered a turtle. She's a hailstorm and she would come at me with all these terms and things that I should be doing and working on. And and so I would shut down what there still is, especially there. Margo gave us need a more of an even playground. It gave us a way of communicating that was safe, that didn't feel confrontational or both a bit competitive.

00;06;44;02 - 00;07;07;00

Paul Lindberg

So when we in the past, when we were in into our our stuff, the conversations would get very competitive while you did this and you did this, you did that, and now lot you still end up, a lot of you statements now, not a lot of inner discovery of what's going on with, you know, myself and different parts of are kind of being activated and understanding that it's not what she is communicating.

00;07;07;00 - 00;07;16;22

Paul Lindberg

It's not about me. It's about what's going on with her and her past. So it took some of that emotion out of that. It gave us, I think, a an even playground.

00;07;16;24 - 00;07;39;19

Cherie Lindberg

Yeah. And just for folks that don't know if you're not familiar with it, McGill hailstorm and turtle are ways that Paul and I adapted to process our feelings. So in my family to be heard like, you really had to be a hailstorm. Like you had to be out there, you had to be very verbal to get attention. Otherwise you, you know, you weren't necessarily listened to.

00;07;39;21 - 00;08;01;24

Cherie Lindberg

Where were Paul's family? He learned how to go inside and process things more on the inside. And so that can be really challenging if you don't understand that or accept that about each other and just by understanding that, that I think that really helped us give each other space. And then he would also say to me like, you know, hold on, timeout.

00;08;01;24 - 00;08;13;13

Cherie Lindberg

Like, let me repeat what you said. So you would break it down to make it more manageable because I could talk and talk and talk and talk. So we we really learned a piece things, I think.

00;08;13;16 - 00;08;27;07

Paul Lindberg

Yeah. And it also allowed us to say, hey, no, this isn't a real good time for me. I will be I'll come back to you on that one. I'm in a better spot because there are times when that is it. You're not in a good spot. You're not ready to hear what she has to say or what your spouse has to say.

00;08;27;07 - 00;08;49;10

Paul Lindberg

So it gave us the opportunity to say, Hey, you know what? This isn't a real good time. But, you know, I will come back when I am ready. And usually, you know, in the past it'd be maybe a week or two or so. Now it's maybe within the hour, even even sooner, that I can bring myself and ground myself a little bit and then be present and have compassion for what's going in it.

00;08;49;12 - 00;09;13;09

Cherie Lindberg

And I really wanted to share around this because I think some people I don't know, maybe listening to this, I just want to normalize reactivity. We are not a perfect couple. We still get reactive with each other, but we what I love is that we now have tools that we can sit down and resolve the conflict very quickly, let go and move forward.

00;09;13;09 - 00;09;20;08

Cherie Lindberg

Where prior to not having these tools, I mean, our arguments would go for weeks and we wouldn't talk for long periods of time.

00;09;20;08 - 00;09;37;13

Paul Lindberg

So we weren't being heard. We we felt we weren't being heard. So, you know, we would you know, I would tell you what was going on. And then you would say, well, you know this about me. And when we never really felt heard. So it just kept going, recycling itself and recycling itself. And we still go through that.

00;09;37;13 - 00;09;46;23

Paul Lindberg

I mean, we still have times where it's kind of like we didn't do our child parts because they're easy to kind of fall back on, but we're more aware of it and then we come out of it, I think, a lot quicker.

00;09;46;29 - 00;10;01;24

Cherie Lindberg

Yeah, and talk about that for a second. If you're comfortable, whatever you're comfortable sharing about what happens to you, and I'll share what happens to me when your younger parts hijack you. Like what is the experience like? So just people can kind of get an understanding of what we're talking about.

00;10;02;02 - 00;10;24;28

Paul Lindberg

How to describe it. It's I get frustrated. There's that anger, there's that maybe heard that feeling or and all of those parts are showing up. And it's really hard to process in here, I assure you, when I'm in that. So it takes it takes me some time to go, okay, this is what's going on. You feel it in your body.

00;10;24;28 - 00;10;35;19

Paul Lindberg

This is what happens. What's going on? Which part is it? Let's talk to them. Let's work it out. Let's, you know, let's bring it down so that we can communicate with. Sure.

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Cherie Lindberg

Yeah. Yeah. So another way that I would say that is when I feel hijacked is that negative narratives like these and these narratives really started way beyond our way before I even met you. Like these are the narratives that have lived inside of me way before I even met you. And unfortunately, you get to be the person because you're my loved one.

00;10;57;27 - 00;11;16;01

Cherie Lindberg

And we see each other every single day that triggers those. But the dialog gives us a tool to where we can actually like help our part deal. Heard talk about, hey, you know, when you did that this triggered that and said we and it reminds me of when I was you know, eight years old and this happened blah, blah, blah.

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Cherie Lindberg

Right.

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Paul Lindberg

Gets rid of the use statements. It's more of a blockade. This is what's going on inside of me. This is how I am feeling when what happens when this happens? It's you know, I get I go back to when, you know, mom and dad that such and such. And it triggers those emotions, just having that self-reflection and then coming back with some compassion and is really helpful.

00;11;39;26 - 00;11;52;17

Cherie Lindberg

So for those that might be listening right now, what what was the struggle for you initially with personal growth, but the idea of personal growth, what was tied up in that?

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Paul Lindberg

Well, I think it is still a stigma. A lot of people in especially males, to say that's not you know, you don't talk about your feelings, you don't talk about, you know, you just yeah, you just don't do that and you kind of stuff it down the pain, you you work your way through it and, and we didn't have a lot of I think males didn't have role models for that and even our kids didn't really, you know, when they were younger we weren't able to do that.

00;12;18;25 - 00;12;39;10

Paul Lindberg

They see it now and they kind of recognize it and they and a joke about it. But we just didn't have those role models about how to be able to communicate well and have compassion. And that was more either they didn't talk or when they did it came out in a hailstorm or it came out and it was fired because I didn't have all of those role models.

00;12;39;10 - 00;13;07;24

Paul Lindberg

So it was like a process. And once I became comfortable, a lot of those and we add an even playing field and that felt heard, I think that made us, you know, like grew up right, that made the big leap, right, Especially when we went through them. I go I think from that point on I was more open to doing maybe the I of Trainspotting and having, you know, working with Brown or even the shamans, you know, and working with them for four days on a period.

00;13;07;24 - 00;13;12;06

Paul Lindberg

So just being able to, you know, be more open to different experiences.

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Cherie Lindberg

Yeah. And if you really if you really look at it, I mean, we'll be married 35 years this fall. We've been we started that tool. We're married ten years. So we've been doing a model for different forms of a margaux, different things. For 25 years, we've been kind of finding these new tools, and I really want people to know, first of all, it was worth it, because now I think we finally, at 35 years, we are feeling comfortable.

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Cherie Lindberg

I do. I'll speak for myself. Where when we have conflict now I have no problem. I know we can get through it. Where there were times where it was scary. I didn't know if we'd get through the conflict, but now I trust we will because we have some really good tools and I just wish society would would know about all of these tools.

00;13;59;06 - 00;14;18;05

Cherie Lindberg

And that's one of the reasons why we're doing the podcast and we're doing the training on teaching therapists how to do this with with their couples because young people get married and it's like, Well, good luck happily ever after. And a lot of folks do not understand that you're a product of your upbringing and that your parents didn't have these skills.

00;14;18;07 - 00;14;41;15

Cherie Lindberg

You're not going to have these skills. And we did not have these skills when we had two sons when they were really little. And there were consequences, you know, to that. Luckily, you know, they can they can see it now. But we're learning we're learning to align with repair work. We're learning how to reestablish connection. Is there anything that you would say about any of those topics?

00;14;41;16 - 00;15;10;15

Paul Lindberg

Well, I don't want people to freak out and go, Oh my God, and take us 35 years to get there. But true. So it it didn't take 35 years. I'd say within the last once we really made the commitment to do it, the personal growth and work on some of these things, that's I think, what's in the last ten, ten years or so that we really made, you know, a lot of progress and I think you just need to be open to those those different ideas, those different tools, and that, you know, it can go quicker.

00;15;10;15 - 00;15;21;15

Paul Lindberg

It just matters how much you put into it. Life gets busy and, you know, you fall back into your old ways. It's easy to do that, but you can make it happen quicker if you know you committed to it.

00;15;21;17 - 00;15;25;05

Cherie Lindberg

What would you say was one of your biggest challenges?

00;15;25;08 - 00;15;46;13

Paul Lindberg

Well, I think part of it was that we had a lot of things in early on in our marriage that we had caused us to trust, that we didn't trust each other. It wasn't, you know, going outside the marriage, but it was just how we dealt with each other and how we connected emotionally. Emotional trust. Yeah. And so that part, I think, was pretty ingrained.

00;15;46;13 - 00;16;07;09

Paul Lindberg

It and it's it still pops up now and we you know I need to work through that and trust that you know through her growth that that that's been in the past. But yeah I mean if you notice that early on in your relationships, the quicker you can deal with it, the better because all you're doing is you're kind of creating some damage along the way against you.

00;16;07;13 - 00;16;17;06

Paul Lindberg

Yeah. And you know, it's going to be tougher as you move along. So yeah, the quicker to recognize it and be cognizant of it and work with it, the better off you're going to be.

00;16;17;11 - 00;16;33;14

Cherie Lindberg

Yeah, I agree. I mean, that's one of my biggest pieces. When couples come in after ten years and you do, you had this ten years of habits and baggage that you have to work through. And a lot of times you're going through grief and forgiveness of things that happened early on. And I think that's what happened with you and I.

00;16;33;20 - 00;16;49;27

Cherie Lindberg

I had PTSD and did not know it when we were first married, you know, So it took many years to to repair that work. What would you say is one of the best things about all these tools that was easy for you or that was very helpful for you?

00;16;50;00 - 00;17;10;17

Paul Lindberg

They were Mine was a big one for me, like I said it and even the playing field with us, it was especially with us, it was safe conversations early on in our relationship weren't there. It allowed us to have a safe conversation and then set some ground rules and some boundaries. So that was the big one for me, was working through that.

00;17;10;17 - 00;17;30;18

Paul Lindberg

And then, you know, the other tools kind of say, Come in. I kind of added to it. And it used to grow and grow. So, you know, and like I said, I still see monthly, you know, my efforts persevere. Sometimes we just talk about, you know, what's going on. You know, sometimes we'll find something that's kind of, you know, hey, this has been bugging me.

00;17;30;18 - 00;17;44;15

Paul Lindberg

You can work on this. But I think you really it's it's a continual process. You can't just say, well, okay, I'm fixed. While Diana and so since are going to pop back up you got to be able to recognize that and you got to be able to talk to somebody about it.

00;17;44;15 - 00;18;06;09

Cherie Lindberg

Right. So agreed. I mean, so for me, what what has been the most helpful for me? I mean, I the imago, of course, is at the core of the foundation of being able to connect, but being able for you and I to talk about our wounded parts with each other and be really vulnerable. That for me has taken it to another level.

00;18;06;12 - 00;18;29;11

Cherie Lindberg

And for me it started to really build up more trust and more forgiveness from the past. And so your willingness to be vulnerable was very helpful. And so again, just reiterating that this is a process and I want to just say how much I appreciate the fact that you're still coaching and getting checked in. And I do too.

00;18;29;11 - 00;18;38;17

Cherie Lindberg

Like we we do our relationship coaching, you know, every other month or something like that. And then we each have our own individual just kind of like a consciousness raising.

00;18;38;19 - 00;19;00;28

Paul Lindberg

Well, and we're we're both cognitive of each other and how and we recognize each one, each other's kind of struggling. And it's kind of like you've met them once, the last time you saw right now just kind of a compassionate way of trying to let me know that there's something going on or, you know, we will call each other and say, hey, something's kind of going on.

00;19;00;28 - 00;19;13;14

Paul Lindberg

We want a dialog about it. You're much, much better than I am about that. I'll I'll kind of sit back and. But you're you're kind of the dialog person. But it is then it's my responsibility to, you know, to say, Yeah, let's do it well.

00;19;13;14 - 00;19;31;17

Cherie Lindberg

And that was one of my hang ups initially. When we talk about competitive issues and all that kind of stuff is that there was this little kid inside is like, why do I always have to be the one to initiate the dialog? But once I got over that and I started to tell myself, like, Do does this work for you and Paul?

00;19;31;18 - 00;19;52;23

Cherie Lindberg

Yes, it does. Does it really matter who initiated it? That helps you stay close? And it was like, No, it really doesn't matter because I end up getting what I need and I want. So, you know, can't I just be somebody that initiates? And so letting go of that, it's got to be equal all the time. Saying really helped.

00;19;52;26 - 00;19;57;16

Paul Lindberg

Yeah, yeah. Because we all we, each of us have good strengths. So that's what works.

00;19;57;16 - 00;20;22;01

Cherie Lindberg

For us, right? Yeah. So, well, let's say we have a new newly married couple and that's the other piece of this is like I've started, I'm a minister now and I'm, I married people, which is beautiful to see. And we talk about some of these things when they're getting ready to get married. So let's say somebody, you know, just got married in the last few years and they're they're having some issues with with conflict.

00;20;22;01 - 00;20;37;29

Cherie Lindberg

What would you say to a young couple that they thought it was going to be all butterflies and rainbows and now they're two years in and the conflict is starting to come and they're not really solving it real well. There's lots of silent treatment or stonewall lying or things like that happening.

00;20;38;01 - 00;20;55;14

Paul Lindberg

I think the communication part of that is going to be the big thing. And I think setting up those guidelines on how you communicate and, you know, it goes back to the email and the dialog because the way that the communicating now is now working, they're falling back on old ways. The honeymoon is over.

00;20;55;20 - 00;20;58;27

Cherie Lindberg

So those stories that narratives out.

00;20;58;29 - 00;21;14;24

Paul Lindberg

Are starting to pop back up. And that's natural. I mean, that's that's what you're comfortable. That's what you were raised with. And those things are going to keep coming back unless you deal with it. So, yeah, just working on that communication so that you both feel heard right?

00;21;14;26 - 00;21;38;29

Cherie Lindberg

So and learning some new skills because the skills that you observed in your family of origin, you know, they, I can take you so far right And so learning some some new skills. Last question. You know, this is kind of where we're at right now and reflection is now starting to try to use these tools to do repair work with our own children.

00;21;39;01 - 00;21;59;26

Cherie Lindberg

What would you recommend where you have a couple like us who has been, you know, in some levels emotionally struggling in the beginning of their marriage, but now they finally have all these tools and they're connected and and so forth. But their children didn't get those tools because they didn't have them when their kids were little.

00;21;59;28 - 00;22;28;06

Paul Lindberg

Well, I think, you know, you can't force it on them. You can only demonstrate. Yeah. Through the way that you communicate. Now, if you use the dialog when you are in conflict and they see that it'll start to click. Yeah. And that you know you are, you've changed you, you're using different tools, you so I mean I don't think it's never too late to give them those tools to mirror those tools, you know.

00;22;28;06 - 00;22;50;28

Cherie Lindberg

So I know when I and I am not saying they're perfect at all, I mean even, you know, there's sometimes I get reactive as well. But when I find myself getting reactive app, I can just immediately start to mirror and listen right there. I can that can just fuze that the situation and surprise the other person too because you're no longer defensive.

00;22;50;28 - 00;22;55;22

Cherie Lindberg

You're you're now you know, listening So these tools can, you know last for a lifetime.

00;22;55;22 - 00;23;16;19

Paul Lindberg

Yeah I think you know we even when I was teaching I would do that I would I would mirror back. I went out especially in those I know stressful situation where the kid is really upset and he just wants to and he's just letting Lois just mirroring back exactly what you're saying. And that would bring the situation down.

00;23;16;21 - 00;23;17;21

Cherie Lindberg

Because he felt angry.

00;23;17;22 - 00;23;31;02

Paul Lindberg

They felt hurt and that's all they want it They want to feel hurt right. They and not feel charged. They don't want to you know, they just want to be feel heard. So you can use it anywhere. You can use it at work. It can sit with the relationships that can use. Are friendships. Friendships.

00;23;31;03 - 00;23;42;03

Cherie Lindberg

Yeah, I agree. Well, I just want to thank you for coming on and sharing your experiences. I know this isn't like, you know, on your agenda to be on a podcast every week.

00;23;42;03 - 00;23;45;19

Paul Lindberg

I think I only gave you maybe four or five excuses throughout.

00;23;45;23 - 00;24;26;21

Cherie Lindberg

Oh, yeah, we've been trying to do this for six months. Well, let's just put that out there. But I'm sure people will appreciate that, you know, that you came on and shared. So thank you for being with us. You're welcome. I hope you enjoyed the podcast where Paul and I were talking about what it was like to initially be married as when we were younger and how imago dialog and brain spotting and parts work has helped us heal along the way and we've used them as skills and tools to build a deep conscious connection, and we wanted to share that with others out there who may be struggling.

00;24;26;21 - 00;24;45;14

Cherie Lindberg

Or maybe you're newly married and you're looking for a way to communicate that's going to help both of you feel heard or maybe has been married a while and you're needing something new and you're recognizing the tools that you got growing up, you know, no longer work. Or maybe you want to do some repair work with your adult children.

00;24;45;14 - 00;25;07;26

Cherie Lindberg

These are all the different ways that we've used these tools. So I hope you found it informative. And if there's somebody that you think would benefit from this podcast, if you would be willing to share, we're always welcome to hear from our audience. Thank you for listening and sharing the elevated live podcast Stories of Hope and Healing.

00;25;07;29 - 00;25;26;24

Narrator

Thank you for joining us on another uplifting journey on Cherie Lindberg's Elevated Life Academy Stories of hope and healing. If you found resonance or connection with what you've heard today, we encourage you to share this episode and consider becoming a subscriber. Please spread the word so others can live an elevated life.