75: Redefining Productivity: How to Get Things Done Without Burning Out with Risa Williams”

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Cherie Lindberg

Hi, I'm Cherie Lindberg and welcome to Elevated Life Academy where we share real stories of healing, hope and transformation. Tune in to hear how everyday people are rising above and lighting the way for others.

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Cherie Lindberg

Welcome to another episode of Elevated Life Academy and I am your host, Cherie Lindberg. And we have with us today. And in just a moment, I'm going to let her introduce herself. And as you know, we come on and we go across the entire world meeting healers, people that do things for their own well-being. And we listen to their stories in the hope that we will find little nuggets so that you all can learn to live an elevated life.

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Cherie Lindberg

And so that's what we're going to have a conversation today and see what Risa has to add to that conversation. So welcome, Risa. Thank you.

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Risa Williams

So much for having me on your show.

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Cherie Lindberg

Yeah, you're very welcome. So tell me a little bit about yourself, Risa. And you were sharing just before we get on about your book. So please, let's start there and we'll see where we go.

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Risa Williams

So I'm Risa Williams, I'm a therapist and book author here in Los Angeles. I have six self-help books out.

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Cherie Lindberg

Right now, and my specialty is helping people manage their time in a gentler and kinder way. I call it looking at your goals and your time through a self kindness mindset. Instead of tipping over into burnout and stress and hustle culture, I encourage people to make wellbeing and the way they feel their first priority, their first goal. And then we work on taking small steps towards big goals in gentler, easier ways that are kinder to ourselves.

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Cherie Lindberg

Basically, yeah. Beautiful. So tell me a little bit about how this came to be, what you were seeing, what you were experiencing, maybe with your clients that made you feel moved to write this book. So I've been working with clients for 15 years on anxiety. And during the pandemic, you know, anxiety was really high, stress was really high.

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Cherie Lindberg

I had just previously experienced burnout myself, working at a university, feeling like I was running myself ragged and feeling like my to do list was never done. I'm also a mom and I just have a lot on my plate and I was noticing my clients as well. But number one thing they were coming to see me about was burnout.

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Cherie Lindberg

That was just becoming a huge thing. And even during the pandemic, when everyone was home, a lot of people were working remotely. Burnout was like the main topic. They were so burnt out. They were having this feeling like it was the first time in their life they had pulled back and really looked at things with a different perspective and thought, I can't go on like this.

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Cherie Lindberg

Like the speed I was going at was unsustainable, and I was having those feelings to suddenly being at home, suddenly being with my kids and family all day long, just feeling like, how am I holding it all together all the time? And so I started to look at ways people could be a little gentler and kinder to themselves, because my belief as a therapist is when it comes to goals, we're not trying to get to the thing necessarily as the feeling place.

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Cherie Lindberg

So it's more about getting to the feeling we want to have from attaining the goal or achieving the goal rather than the goal itself. So sometimes you want a new job or you want to move to a new city, or you want to win an award, or you want all these things and we're not really thinking about, well, what do I want to feel when I get there, right?

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Cherie Lindberg

Like, what does that feel like to get that? What is the feeling I'm desiring? And can I start to practice that feeling in tiny doses now, or do I have to wait till that giant milestone happens? To feel happy, to feel proud of myself, to feel relief? So that's sort of what my book gets. Stuff done without the stress is based on this idea of pulling back from hustle culture, noticing what you've been taught about productivity and output, and kind of changing it and rewriting and redefining what that means to you.

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Cherie Lindberg

And can we redefine being productive and achieving our goals in a way that feels healthier and happier to us overall?

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Risa Williams

So what I'm what I'm hearing you say is that it was basically an idea that came from sitting and listening to everyone's stories and you're like, oh gosh, I'm experiencing this myself. And then it was from there you started to talk about, all right, let's see what we can do to feel this a little bit each day.

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Cherie Lindberg

Yeah.

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Risa Williams

Now, instead of waiting.

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Cherie Lindberg

Exactly. Instead of putting off all those good feelings, how can we practice them in tiny doses? Because what I was noticing was even after the pandemic, people were accomplishing big things and worked with clients to do a lot of super impressive, high achieving things. And they weren't feeling the feelings they wanted to feel. They accomplished any of them, let alone little tiny things we do each day.

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Cherie Lindberg

They weren't feeling proud. They were feeling happy. They were like, I just did this amazing thing I've been working on for years, and I don't feel the feelings I'm supposed to feel. I just feel like what's next? What's next? What's next? Right? And I think we can all relate to that. I know I felt like that too.

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Risa Williams

It's very relatable.

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Cherie Lindberg

Can you just share.

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Risa Williams

With me maybe some of the strategies or things that you were working on with folks that could help them actually, you know, feel the good feelings that they were desiring?

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Cherie Lindberg

Yeah. So it goes back to the idea of we can't rely on our brains to remember and track what we're doing. Like, if you're working on a big project over time, we often forget that that big project takes thousands of little tiny steps to get there, right? We all want to get to the end of the finish line, where we imagine ourselves cheering and being really excited, but we kind of when we sign up to do something, we forget that it's like thousands of steps.

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Cherie Lindberg

Some of those are invisible to our brain, you know, and each little step is going to take practicing the feeling you want to feel on the way to the big thing. So then when you get to the big thing, you can feel that feeling in big doses later. So I guess my technique became we need to practice and notice the little tiny wins on the weights of the big wins so that we can feel the big feelings later.

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Cherie Lindberg

Which sounds really simple, but it changes the way you interact with yourself if you start to adopt this mindset. So instead of beating yourself up, oh, I should have done that ten years ago. Why am I not going faster? Or why does so-and-so have why have they done this? But I haven't done it. This is kind of the negative self-talk going on when a lot of us are working on things.

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Cherie Lindberg

It's learning to go into a self kindness mindset. Instead, say, what little tiny thing can I do today that feels really easy for me to do? That's on this path towards that thing.

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Risa Williams

What you're saying is poly bagel theory like to focus on the glimmers?

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Cherie Lindberg

Exactly. And a client.

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Risa Williams

To.

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Cherie Lindberg

Steps you're taking towards your goals. Because I work with people a lot on goals, right. So it is noticing the glimmers and the tiny delights and the joys, but it's also noticing what tiny little thing did I do today to walk myself forward on this big journey I'm on? I like to compare it to the hero's journey, where whenever we take on a goal, it's sort of like we're going on this adventure with ourselves.

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Cherie Lindberg

Except instead of usually most of us don't usually have mentors along the path like you would in the Hero's journey. Like you think of Obi-Wan Kenobi or someone coming in to guide you. We have to learn to be our own mentor and be our own cheerleader, so to speak. As we're doing each little step along the way and facing all the obstacles and stuck points and challenges.

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Cherie Lindberg

So you're imagining like a heroic adventure. Most of us are doing the opposite of this. We're criticizing ourselves the whole time. We're being super mean. It's like we're being the villain in the story to ourselves and adding more roadblocks along the way. So if you think of it in that simple way, what I'm trying to teach people to do is, first of all, see it from a higher level perspective.

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Cherie Lindberg

Pull back and see how far you have to go and how long it's actually going to take in real time, and how many steps it might be. Right, and then start to witness and acknowledge your own journey more in a kind and more nurturing kind of way. Like, oh, look at you, you did that. That was so hard for you.

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Cherie Lindberg

That one step, sending that email, that was really hard. Let's take a minute and just admit that was hard for me and then kind of soothe yourself into the, like, a gentle journey instead of battling yourself the whole way.

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Risa Williams

Yeah, I hear you like teaching people to celebrate themselves.

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Cherie Lindberg

Yeah.

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Risa Williams

Yeah, yeah. So you have several books that you've worked on. What are some of the other topics that you've tackled with people?

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Cherie Lindberg

So I have most of my work is about time management. So I have the ultimate time management toolkit. A lot of my clients have anxiety, but they also have ADHD and stuff like doing everyday tasks can become very difficult. Right? So a lot of my clients, they do really amazing things. Like for example, I work with doctors who are operating on people or people running companies or working on Hollywood movies and this kind of stuff, and that seems really stressful and hard, but to them, that feels easy.

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Cherie Lindberg

And when they come home and they have to do dishes and floss their teeth and remember to, you know, pick things up on time or mail things out, those everyday tasks feel hard for them to do. And understanding that this happens a lot to high achieving individuals. So I have this tool called the Task Intensity Meter, which I teach people to kind of look at their day in a gentler way.

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Cherie Lindberg

And the task intensity meter is you rate any task you have to do as a low, mid or high intensity. And when I say intensity, I just mean like, how stressful is it for you to do so? It's a way to normalize that. Like everyday things are hard for people, you know? So I could say like doing the laundry, for example, for you is that low, middle or high?

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Cherie Lindberg

How does it feel for you to do laundry? A lot of people will say it's high because they'll just avoid it, and it seems easy, but they don't want to do it right. So first, it's like saying that feels intensity for me to do so. Therefore, I should be a little kinder to myself. Every time I have to do laundry.

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Cherie Lindberg

I should maybe take a break after doing laundry and admit, like, I just got through that I didn't want to do. It felt really hard. I'm going to take a little rest now instead of go, go go, push, push, push. So if you look at even chores or stuff on your agenda for work or even just household stuff like some of the kids stuff, I have to do feel sci intensity to me.

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Cherie Lindberg

I'm battling rush hour traffic. You know, my kids maybe had high intensity classes at the end of the day and now we're all a bit fried. So taking stock of that and saying, hey guys, we all just did something that was hard for us in different ways. Now we maybe need what I call a time buffer break when we come home, which is like space that we create to bring the stress down a little bit on purpose.

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Cherie Lindberg

So we're not just rush, rush, rush, let's go make dinner, let's do homework, let's do this. And we're kind of pushing through the stress instead of thinking, how am I feeling right now? What do I need to reset? And then going into the next task.

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Risa Williams

So I hear you're also helping people really pay attention to their bodies, and let's go on so that they can evaluate whether or not they need a little bit of a break before doing another task.

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Cherie Lindberg

Exactly. Because I think so much of the work I do, whether it's anxiety or managing executive functioning skills or time management, really at the crux of it, and it's in all my books, is stress management, right? It's managing our stress because they've done studies that when our stress is high, our executive functioning becomes impaired. So executive functioning is like working memory organization, prioritizing tasks, making decisions.

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Cherie Lindberg

So for anyone listening out there. Have you ever had this feeling like you sit down to write an email and you can't remember what words to type, or you're trying to order something at a restaurant and the menu is like blurring out. You can't even pick anything. That's the feeling I'm talking about. When your executive functions shut down, it just is a cue to you that your stress is actually way higher than you think.

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Cherie Lindberg

And I think what I see in so many of my clients is they just don't have the awareness of stress and how much stress they're under each day. And like functioning in that high stress level, you know, all the time is impacting things they're doing.

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Risa Williams

You know, absolutely. Especially I heard you say that you work with a lot of high achievers. And that is a known fact because I work with high performers. Yeah, they their stress meter is skewed compared to the everyday person because they just go, go, go. So they don't really recognize that. So I hear that with what you're saying.

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Cherie Lindberg

Yeah. And a piece for, you know, the types of people you work with is that sometimes we get a little bit addicted to the adrenaline and the cortisol. And that's what I try to explain to a lot of my clients who have been doing this since they were kids, who have been running at this pace. You know, I was like that, too.

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Cherie Lindberg

As a teenager. I was in all sorts of extracurricular stuff. I was doing like top marks and things and winning awards and go, go, go, go, go. And it created like a pressure cooker that I learned was normal. Like my normal setting was super high stress. And a lot of my clients are similar. So when we learned to bring the stress down, what actually happens is they feel uncomfortable.

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Cherie Lindberg

They feel like, oh, I don't like this feeling of sitting still. I don't like sitting here being bored. I'm not used to it. It feels uncomfortable. And that's just just yeah. It's a sign like your body homeostasis has become very high stress, that even when you try to go on vacation or something like this, it's having trouble lowering it and maintaining it because we haven't, again practiced the feeling we want to feel, which is calm.

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Risa Williams

Right? Yeah. I mean, we could even take this into just Western culture in general. Like we're so stuck in sympathetic dominance of go, go, go crash from what you're sharing.

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Cherie Lindberg

Yeah. This is the hustle culture I'm talking about. And like the toxic kind of element of it that I'm trying to teach people to understand, like how deep it goes, how early you're taught that output is the most important thing. So I try to teach people, we're not robots in a factory, right? We will crash. We have emotions, we have fluctuations.

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Cherie Lindberg

Like we have to treat ourselves a little bit more nuanced, like you can't produce the same thing every day. Some days you wake up in the stress is really high, or you're sick, or you just don't have energy or focus. And so on those days, can we adjust the way we're talking to ourselves? Can we say, can we pull back and say, wow, today I might not get that much done and I'm okay with that.

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Cherie Lindberg

I can still like myself. I can still be kind to myself when I'm not performing, when I'm not producing output, you know, when I'm resting. Yeah.

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Risa Williams

Well, yeah. And I and I hear what you're saying is that folks have to practice learning how to rest because they don't.

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Cherie Lindberg

Yeah, they don't know. A lot of us have never practiced feeling calm, feeling bored, feeling whatever you want to call it. Cozy, rested, restored. We don't even know what it's like, because a lot of times when we're sitting there and calling it a break. It's not actually what I call a real break. It's like we're saying things are a break because we're sitting down and we're not working.

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Cherie Lindberg

But a real break for me means actively bringing my stress down. So again, it's not a passive thing. It's like you have to actively do something to bring the stress down. So what do most of us do? We go on our phones, we're doom scrolling. We're like checking other emails or responding to texts from relatives or something. But our stress might be staying at the exact same level, you know, the whole time.

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Cherie Lindberg

So it's about learning. What does it feel like when it drops? What does it feel like when there's a lack of stimulation for a stretch? And can I just write it out, even though it feels unusual or sometimes really uncomfortable for people?

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Risa Williams

What's coming up for me as you're talking is the whole, like the dopamine and the brain chemistry be this as well. This culture has learned to look for the like or look for, you know, the emoji or, or whatever. So a lot of us get rewarded. That's why a lot of you'll see people on the phones all over the place.

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Risa Williams

So I.

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Cherie Lindberg

Think.

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Risa Williams

That's a huge part of everything that you're sharing as well.

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Cherie Lindberg

Yeah, yeah, we are looking for the reward. However, if the stress is still high, you know, are we getting the brain benefits that we're searching because we're really searching for is like a happy feeling? Where it goes back to my initial premise, which is we need to figure out what feeling we're trying to get to which we don't always intentionally decide.

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Cherie Lindberg

Right? Like, I need to take a break because I need to feel relief. Let's say I've been working, working, working. My brain feels like it's fried. I need relief, so sometimes my brain will say, oh, well, let's look at, you know, cute clothes online and I'm shopping, shopping, shopping. But am I feeling relief or am I just sort of like, rested and stressing myself out or getting caught up in making decisions when I'm already jammed up for making decisions?

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Cherie Lindberg

So if I'm really searching for a feeling of relief, maybe that just means quiet time, or listening to music, or even going for a walk or just getting out of my head, I need to figure out where I'm trying to go emotionally so I can walk myself there. Yeah. You know.

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Risa Williams

So let's say I'm one of your clients and I come to you and I say, you know, I'm stressed, I'm an overachiever. And what would be maybe your first suggestion, first practice or simply a practice that I could start practicing this to, to get more of that, restore that you're talking about.

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Cherie Lindberg

Yeah. So the very first tool I teach everyone I work with is called the stress ruler. And it's basically a scale that goes from 1 to 10 and ten is like freaking out levels of stress where you're visibly very, very, very stressed out. One would be the lack of that, like mellow calm. Most of us are not at a one or a ten all day long.

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Cherie Lindberg

You know, we go up and down and the scale has, you know, all those little notches between the one and a ten. And so what I do is I have people map out their notches like what, what, what a ten looks like on one person looks very different than the person sitting next to them. So for instance, I mentioned sometimes I work with doctors, a ten on them might on the outside look very calm.

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Cherie Lindberg

People might think they're at a two just because they're used to wearing a mask at work of I got to keep it together, right? And so when they go home, you know, their partner or their kids might be like, oh, they're so calm. And then suddenly they're losing it with stress. And everyone is like, what? Where did that come from?

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Cherie Lindberg

That's kind of what I teach people is like, stress looks so different on each of us. And even in a family, each person is expressing stress in a different way. Mom might get super busy. She might just forget to eat dinner, she might be mopping and cleaning, or she might be working in the middle of the night. Dad might be doing that.

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Cherie Lindberg

Some someone else in the family might be isolating in their room. You don't even see them when they're stressed out. Another person might want to be with their friends when they're stressed out, so it looks different. So we just raid it and we start to notice, okay, what is an eight look like? What's the tipping point where I could possibly catch myself because ten is too late?

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Cherie Lindberg

You know, it's usually like a 7 or 8 where I can use breathing exercises or music or all these tools most of us know or hear about, you know, like meditation, exercise, sitting in nature when on the scale. Can I use that? And it will actually work.

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Risa Williams

To bring.

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Cherie Lindberg

My stress down. And when have I gone past what I call the tipping point, where, you know, it's going to take hours for me to calm down? So an important science piece of this is when adrenaline and cortisol are released into our bodies. It can take up to two hours for our bodies to reset. And I think that's the piece a lot of us don't understand about stress.

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Cherie Lindberg

It's not a light switch. We can't just say, well.

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Risa Williams

I took a five minute.

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Cherie Lindberg

Break and I did my breathing. I'm done. You know, your body is going to take a long time to adjust to the calming down stage. So when we get really stressed out with our kids or at work or a partner, are we leaving enough time to fully reset? Or we just going on this stress cycle where we keep spiking it and spiking it and spiking it again, would be how I kind of teach people to look at stress.

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Cherie Lindberg

We monitor it for, you know, a few weeks or a month, and we do our scale. And what I find is people often can write down what a ten looks like, and they have no idea what a five looks like or a four or a six. And so getting them to notice, like you said, what is going on in my body, what is my brain do?

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Cherie Lindberg

And another piece would be ask the people around you. How do they know you're out of ten? How did they know? What are the little signs? I call them stress cuz like warning signs that you're tipping over because sometimes people notice things and you don't even know it in yourself. Like your husband might say, you forget to eat lunch sometimes or are you interrupt me a lot?

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Cherie Lindberg

Or you, like, wander out of the room when I'm talking? You know, those might be signs you're at, like a seven and you don't even realize it yet.

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Risa Williams

Yeah, yeah. Well, the other piece that I'm hearing you too, is teaching basically to be your own best friend in your own, like, inReach as well. Like, yeah, to teach people how to do that.

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Cherie Lindberg

We have to write because our we're in a long term relationship with ourselves. It's like the longest relationship we're ever going to have. So why not make it a friendly one? Why do so many of us make it a contentious one, where we're being so hard on ourselves? No one is going to be around us as much as we're around ourselves.

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Cherie Lindberg

You know.

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Risa Williams

For sure? For sure. Well, this all sounds wonderful. Is there any question I haven't asked you that would be important for our listeners to hear around this topic? Well.

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Cherie Lindberg

I think a good place to start with all of this, you know, if it feels overwhelming to you, is just learn. If you catch yourself saying something, you know, that's a little bit harsh or critical or getting in your own way, instead of arguing with yourself and trying to be super positive because we can't always get there from there.

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Cherie Lindberg

I would start with just label it, say, whoa. That was harsh. Oh, what I just said was a little harsh. I like to use words like that, and you don't even have to try to change it. That's the thing is, as long as you just start noticing something was a little harsh, something was a little off. We naturally start to shift.

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Cherie Lindberg

It's just pulling back and having awareness naturally starts to change the pattern. So I don't want people out there to think it's a lot of work. It's just noticing, labeling it, and then kind of just letting it go and see how it starts to change what you do in subtle ways.

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Risa Williams

Beautiful. Well, I appreciate you coming on and sharing this. And we want to make sure that we have all your links so that people can reach out and get your book, because I don't know anyone that can't benefit from a little bit of inner coaching and time management and kindness to themselves. Oh yeah, it feels like a universal need of all of us right now in the time that our world is in.

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Cherie Lindberg

So yeah, we all need it, right? Yeah, we all need to bring the stress down. We all need to validate and acknowledge ourselves more and give ourselves more praise for all the everyday things we're doing, especially in these times right now, you know? So if you want to learn more about what I do, you can go to reach the Williams com or follow me at Williams Therapy.

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Cherie Lindberg

And I also have a new workshop called the Tiny Winds Workshop, which is an online self-guided class where you track your tiny winds each week, and I teach you how to do it and then teach you how to celebrate those things, because it's not about tracking them so much as connecting emotionally with who I did this. I'm proud of myself.

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Cherie Lindberg

Look at me, I did it. And letting yourself have that little silly moment where you're giving yourself a little bit of praise, even for making lunch or getting through the laundry. You know, I want to teach people how to talk to themselves in this way, because it can change your life in really big ways.

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Risa Williams

Absolutely it can. And I'm all for being nicer to ourselves for sure.

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Cherie Lindberg

Yeah, it makes a huge difference.

00;27;20;24 - 00;27;28;22

Risa Williams

It really does. It really does. Yeah. Well, thank you again for coming on. And we we really appreciate you coming and sharing everything you know.

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Cherie Lindberg

Thank you so much. I've had so much fun talking to you today.

00;27;34;00 - 00;27;59;03

Risa Williams

Well as usual everyone, we had another perspective on how to have an elevated life. And our guest, Richa Williams, really shared very simple steps because I know if you're like me, adding something else to your routine or doing something might seem like work. And we're trying to find things that are simple, effortless, but yet make us be maybe a little bit more intentional.

00;27;59;03 - 00;28;25;04

Risa Williams

And she gave us some really good advice on being our own inner coach, and just becoming more aware of how our body responds to stress. And as I've said before, if you find this valuable, just going to invite you to share it with a loved one or a coworker. Because Elevated Life Academy stories of hope and healing. We are trying to spread this far and wide and bring stories of hope and healing to the world today.

00;28;25;04 - 00;28;39;01

Risa Williams

And we I think we all could really need that, can't we? So just thank you so much for listening and we hope that you found this helpful. Take care. Until we meet again.

00;28;39;04 - 00;29;03;08

Risa Williams

Thank you for joining us today on Elevated Life Academy. Stories of hope and healing. As you move back into your world, I invite you to take a breath and hold on to whatever stirred something in you from our podcast today. Healing isn't always loud, but it is always sacred. Whether today's story Open Your Heart, gave you a new perspective, or just reminded you that you are not alone, it matters.

00;29;03;08 - 00;29;23;20

Risa Williams

And so do you. Keep choosing alignment. Keep trusting your becoming. And remember the elevated life is imperfect. Its present. If this episode resonated. Share it with someone who needs a little more light. And if you're ready to go deeper in your own journey, you know where to find me. Until next time, stay rooted, stay rising and stay you.